Why do non-wealthy people vote Republican? (soldiers, Obama, independent, crime)

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I think another question to consider is this. Why is the political polarization in America most pronounced between working class Whites and working class Blacks?

Core difference is working class Blacks have a collective mindset due to a history of dealing with severe racism and limited economic opportunities. Individuals don't overcome slavery, KKK terror campaigns, centuries of being kept out of good jobs, etc. That takes a community. GOP rhetoric plays heavily into the traditional American notion of self dependence, pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. In the real world clearly many GOP states and individuals don't live those sayings as they depend heavily on urban states subsiding them. But those types of slogans remain popular nonetheless.

Best example I've seen of this comes from the book Dying of Whiteness. In focus groups Black men - even GOP leaning ones - always supported higher taxes to provide poorer people with things like healthcare. White men even those unemployed and poor were universally against any collective programs as they interfere with their view of 'lone ranger individualism'. They prefer dying honorably without help to living better through the benefit of collective programs.

[Freak80]

Originally Posted by censusdata

White men even those unemployed and poor were universally against any collective programs as they interfere with their view of 'lone ranger individualism'. They prefer dying honorably without help to living better through the benefit of collective programs.

Yes. There’s also a racist element to the promotion of “rugged individualism” as apparent in Republican consultant Lee Atwater’s infamous quote:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “n——r, n——r, n——r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n——r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “n——r, n——r.” — Lee Atwater

[paracord]

Originally Posted by Freak80

Let’s cut to the chase: why do non-wealthy people vote Republican? It’s bizarre. The Republicans clearly favor the interests of big business and the ultra-wealthy. The Ayn Rand wing of the party wants to turn the clock back to the 1890s, with no rights for working people and complete corporate dominance. They have largely succeeded.

The only explanation I can think of: since 1992, the Democrats have become a Republican Party clone, at least on economic issues. If that’s true, the only thing that differentiates the two parties is their stance on cultural issues. So working class people who are white, gun-owning, religious, and anti-abortion vote Republican. I suppose that’s rational. If they have no choice but to vote against their economic interests, they might as well vote for the party that aligns with their cultural beliefs.

Maybe if the Democrats had some stones and returned to their working class roots, they would get more working class voters. The whole Trump phenomenon might not have happened if the Democrats would have stood up to the neoliberal assault on working people. Unfortunately, the Democrats were probably too dependent on corporate money for that to happen.

Are you saying that if you're not wealthy you should automatically want the government to tax other people and give you free stuff?

Yikes. Nice attitude.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by Freak80

There’s no question that modern Democrats have abandoned the working class.

But do you really think Trump was for the working class? Didn’t he give massive tax breaks to the rich?

No, he didn't. They got nailed by Trump's $10,000 SALT deduction limit.

"A $1 million-plus wage earner came to her tax preparer last weekend to see what the Trump tax cuts, which went into effect for the 2018 tax year, would mean for her tax return due April 15. And boy, was she disappointed. Last year, she deducted $245,500 in real estate taxes, state income taxes and personal property taxes. This year her deduction for these state and local taxes was limited to just $10,000, because of the new SALT cap."

Wealthy Taxpayers Screaming About Lost Deductions Under Trump Tax "Cuts"

Sounds like you believed the deliberately deceptive "tax cuts for the rich" Dem propaganda.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by Freak80

There’s no question that modern Democrats have abandoned the working class.

But do you really think Trump was for the working class? Didn’t he give massive tax breaks to the rich?

You have a third option: not voting. It’s better to not vote than to vote against your interests. Why legitimize a policy with your vote?

In my mind, the fewer people that vote for either of these corrupt parties, the better.

70% of the country got a tax break. YOU probably got a tax break under Trump.

Even the NY Times wrote and article entitled "Face it, you probably got a tax break."

In it, it describes people who got tax breaks but didn't know it or understand it. Are you one of those people?

[nng]

I'm personally a middle of the road centrist and political moderate. I like that republicans want lower taxes. I believe in a safety net, and I think something needs to be done about the high cost of living especially housing. I think that they need to lower the cost of prescription drug costs by negotiating drug prices. I'm a liberal lefty on social issues. However, democrats are all about allowing illegals to come into our country, and want to give illegals citizenship and welfare benefits. I'm against that. I'm against open borders and illegal immigration. Even legal immigration should be limited. Immigrants should only be let in if an American can't fill or do the job or if there is a critical need for skilled workers. Look at democrat run states. In every democrat run state the taxes and cost of housing are sky high and outrageous. That's what you get with democrats. People need to start realizing that democrats are destructive and you are worse off with democrats in control. And I don't like that democrats are trying to give so called free stuff to Americans. Like they say we need freebie taxpayer funded daycare and preschool etc. well as I see it, all socialism is is you using the force of government to get benefits for yourself by taking from other taxpayers. Socialism is a selfish creed. I think people should be able to keep their hard earned money!

[Freak80]

Originally Posted by paracord

Are you saying that if you're not wealthy you should automatically want the government to tax other people and give you free stuff?

Yikes. Nice attitude.

There is no such thing as free stuff. Someone has to make it or provide it.

[Freak80]

Originally Posted by paracord

70% of the country got a tax break. YOU probably got a tax break under Trump.

Even the NY Times wrote and article entitled "Face it, you probably got a tax break."

In it, it describes people who got tax breaks but didn't know it or understand it. Are you one of those people?

I don’t want a tax cut if it means gutting the social safety net.

[crone]

Originally Posted by Freak80

There’s no question that modern Democrats have abandoned the working class.

But do you really think Trump was for the working class? Didn’t he give massive tax breaks to the rich?

You have a third option: not voting. It’s better to not vote than to vote against your interests. Why legitimize a policy with your vote?

In my mind, the fewer people that vote for either of these corrupt parties, the better.

One of them will be in charge whether you vote or not.

[LINative]

Originally Posted by nng

I'm personally a middle of the road centrist and political moderate. I like that republicans want lower taxes. I believe in a safety net, and I think something needs to be done about the high cost of living especially housing. I think that they need to lower the cost of prescription drug costs by negotiating drug prices. I'm a liberal lefty on social issues. However, democrats are all about allowing illegals to come into our country, and want to give illegals citizenship and welfare benefits. I'm against that. I'm against open borders and illegal immigration. Even legal immigration should be limited. Immigrants should only be let in if an American can't fill or do the job or if there is a critical need for skilled workers. Look at democrat run states. In every democrat run state the taxes and cost of housing are sky high and outrageous. That's what you get with democrats. People need to start realizing that democrats are destructive and you are worse off with democrats in control. And I don't like that democrats are trying to give so called free stuff to Americans. Like they say we need freebie taxpayer funded daycare and preschool etc. well as I see it, all socialism is is you using the force of government to get benefits for yourself by taking from other taxpayers. Socialism is a selfish creed. I think people should be able to keep their hard earned money!

I basically agree with most of what you write here.

Basically I think the question is why do "non-wealthy people" vote for the Republicans comes down to the lesser of two evils.

For the Republicans, for the longest time they were the party of the Bush/Romney type of country club Republicans, totally content to ignore domestic policies and problems as long they could keep business and income taxes low on the wealthy. For them, foreign policy and a strong military were keys to keep the public's attention off the domestic side. Both Bushes, father and son are examples of this, I am guessing Romney would have been similar if he were elected.

But the Democrats are worse.

The Democratic Party was literally wiped out during the Civil War in much of the country. To make a come back they literally became the party of special interests, making promises to any marginal group even when it contradicted promises already made to another group. And after the income tax was created, they began to use tax dollars as a way to buy votes, which how they took over the most wealthy states and made them one party states.

One you realize that, and as a New Yorker I see it first hand, then you realize that while the Republicans are far from perfect, the Democrats and the one party state are the bigger long term danger.