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Old 11-13-2021, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,258 posts, read 22,820,455 times
Reputation: 16415

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Nay

Don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.
I've never understood the 'America- love it or leave it' crowd because why wouldn't you want to take a good thing and try to make it even better? Which can involve examinations of best practices in other locations to see if those systems would have additional benefits if implemented there.

Arrogance or fundamental laziness because it would actually involve some hard work to explore improvement gains?
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Land of the Free
6,696 posts, read 6,707,372 times
Reputation: 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
It has created slower growing economies, but Europeans have found a way to make it by.
Yes, by constantly going on strike, protesting, and fighting even harder than many Americans to keep foreigners out, all while being dependent on Russian and Belarusian dictators for their energy supply.

No wonder so many more Europeans immigrate to America than they other way around.
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,423,772 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
Yes, by constantly going on strike, protesting, and fighting even harder than many Americans to keep foreigners out, all while being dependent on Russian and Belarusian dictators for their energy supply.

No wonder so many more Europeans immigrate to America than they other way around.
It's coming to you soon bud. Nothing to be done about it. Adapt or perish. It was fun while it lasted.

https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/t...gal-revolution
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,258 posts, read 22,820,455 times
Reputation: 16415
I do have to admit I dig the German approach to capitalism where so many companies are still-mid-sized family owned and can take a longer term planning approach rather than being subject to short term stockholder demands and where it seems like you often get a fairer and more cooperative allocation of profits to those who contribute capital and those who contribute labor to a company's success.

They are not a cheap labor country and yet manage to still run a trade surplus in so many sectors because of a perception of quality of those products.

Thee are definitely lessons we can learn from what they're getting right.
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Old 11-14-2021, 02:19 AM
 
1,154 posts, read 274,007 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Wrong.

The global elite don’t want Americans to have what Europeans have: universal healthcare, 4 weeks paid vacation, etc. That would undermine the elite’s power. The elite want Americans to remain desperate, obedient, and subservient workers.

I tend to believe this also. And they want a "slave" class of people which so many are already complying with, to secure their elite lifestyles.



It isn't practical to try to make Americans live like Europeans. For one thing European cities and towns are older and denser where things are in close proximity to peoples' residences for the most part, but America is so spacious and since the sixties and seventies when neighborhood mom and pop convenience stores lost out to major corporations, what a shock, nothing is within biking/walking distance in the U.S. Not a comfortable distance anyway.
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Old 11-14-2021, 02:42 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,348 posts, read 19,114,527 times
Reputation: 26226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...alflow-organic

I thought I would wince reading this, but they have a point. The US economy has been so prosperous for so long Americans have come to expect excessive goods, oversized, underpriced, and serviced immediately.

It has created a country of malcontents, materialistic parents and self-centered children throw tantrums when they don't get what they want. We live in bigger and bigger homes with AC on all the time, and it has made us more demanding and entitled.

Now that this perfect system of supply chains has crashed and store shelves have emptied Bloomberg suggest Americans live like Europeans.

Minus the UK, western Europeans spend half as much per-capita on consumer goods. They take up there recreational time with outdoor walks, cafes, biking, family visits, or window shopping.

It has created slower growing economies, but Europeans have found a way to make it by. Americans are taught its their patriotic duty to spend, but our economy doesn't have to structured in a way that is reliant on consumerism. 70% of our GDP is based on consumer spending, so if people stop the economy will tumble. But with the supply chain crisis America may be forced to reorient their economy are production.

That means insuring supposed low growth businesses like local businesses, mid-sized firms, and protected industry (that is less competitive globally).

Furthermore, with a slower less dynamic economy, we would attract less migrants and force loyal citizens to procreate.

Yay or Nay?

Europeans have better health care, a much better food chain, a better balance of life between work and lifestyle so yes I think we should move more in that direction. The problem is that I/we have grown accustomed to our lifestyle and don't want to reduce it.
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Old 11-14-2021, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,123 posts, read 13,418,247 times
Reputation: 19420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...alflow-organic

Minus the UK, western Europeans spend half as much per-capita on consumer goods. They take up there recreational time with outdoor walks, cafes, biking, family visits, or window shopping.
The UK's fairly similar to Germany in terms of per capita consumer goods, and has similar recreational time and activities to other parts of Europe.

List of countries by household final consumption expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...alflow-organic

I thought I would wince reading this, but they have a point. The US economy has been so prosperous for so long Americans have come to expect excessive goods, oversized, underpriced, and serviced immediately.

It has created a country of malcontents, materialistic parents and self-centered children throw tantrums when they don't get what they want. We live in bigger and bigger homes with AC on all the time, and it has made us more demanding and entitled.

Now that this perfect system of supply chains has crashed and store shelves have emptied Bloomberg suggest Americans live like Europeans.
Europe has supply chain problems as well, and Europe has it's share of left wing protesters and snowflakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324

It has created slower growing economies, but Europeans have found a way to make it by. Americans are taught its their patriotic duty to spend, but our economy doesn't have to structured in a way that is reliant on consumerism. 70% of our GDP is based on consumer spending, so if people stop the economy will tumble. But with the supply chain crisis America may be forced to reorient their economy are production.

That means insuring supposed low growth businesses like local businesses, mid-sized firms, and protected industry (that is less competitive globally).

Furthermore, with a slower less dynamic economy, we would attract less migrants and force loyal citizens to procreate.

Yay or Nay?
I don't think low economic growth is something we should aspire to, as it invariably leads to higher unemployment and ever decreasing demand, and this has a knock on effect on taxes and national income, which is then reflected in money spent on essential services such as health, welfare, education etc.

Europe also has it's own environmental problems, especially in Eastern Europe, where countries such as Poland have refused to give up coal production.

As for manufactured goods, there are a lot of European car manufacturers, as well as companies making household and gardening appliances, and there are tens of millions of jobs that rely on exports between Europe and the US.

There is change ahead, and energy production will shift to cleaner sources, and there will be changes in the way people live, however I am sure Americans like everyone else will adapt to hybrid vehicles and more eco friendly production and manufacturing.

Last edited by Brave New World; 11-14-2021 at 03:22 AM..
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Old 11-14-2021, 04:04 AM
 
2,980 posts, read 1,163,192 times
Reputation: 2731
The Soviet op want the US to be more like Soviet union
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Old 11-14-2021, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,361,465 times
Reputation: 12647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Wrong.

The global elite don’t want Americans to have what Europeans have: universal healthcare, 4 weeks paid vacation, etc. That would undermine the elite’s power. The elite want Americans to remain desperate, obedient, and subservient workers.
My employer is an international corporation.

They pay about 80% of my healthcare premiums.

Why would my employer not want the US to take over this expense by creating a single-payer system?

This year, as a new employee, I only get three weeks of paid vacation.

Most of the people I work with, guys that have been there a few years, are already receiving four weeks of paid vacation.

What European workers do have that US workers don't have is a tax bill for 50% of their gross pay.
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Old 11-14-2021, 05:38 AM
 
8,407 posts, read 4,570,500 times
Reputation: 5580
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
I've never understood the 'America- love it or leave it' crowd because why wouldn't you want to take a good thing and try to make it even better? Which can involve examinations of best practices in other locations to see if those systems would have additional benefits if implemented there.

Arrogance or fundamental laziness because it would actually involve some hard work to explore improvement gains?

And I've never understood the self-loathing "America is the worst at everything" crowd. You see it here whether it's "Americans are too dumb to adopt the metric system" to 'Americans are all fat and lazy" to "we should be like the rest of the civilized world". Meanwhile everyone wants to come here.


The new motto is "lower expectations" and "doing without is better".
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