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Old 12-15-2021, 09:16 AM
 
19,717 posts, read 10,107,310 times
Reputation: 13074

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Must spread reputation" Thank you.

"My Dad was serious old school and he loathed the M 16/AR with zeal"

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect your fathers.

However, the 1st version of the M16 DID have problems and WERE FIXED.

I did 2 tours in 'Nam and know the M16 very well. Both versions.
I started with the M14 and then the M16. The M16 I had was crap. Guess I was out before it was fixed. We were begging to get the M14s back.
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Old 12-15-2021, 09:28 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,476,114 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Ah, a Canadian decides to weigh in on American gun issues. Bless your heart. . .
Oh my; I guess one-way traffic is all that's allowed on this public highway, eh?

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ea-canada.html
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Old 12-15-2021, 09:58 AM
 
8,313 posts, read 3,920,745 times
Reputation: 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Stop Calling the AR-15 An Assault Rifle or a Weapon of War

No way! All firearms were first invented to be weapons of war to kill other humans and nothing has changed about that throughout the entire history of firearms. So I will always call all of them weapons of war, even my own.

And I'll call AR-15's assault weapons because their intimidating appearance was deliberately designed to put that impression of assault into the minds of people who see them. The appearance of them makes their owners imagine they have street cred and higher status and feel like they are tough guys because they have a more scary looking death weapon than other rifles.

So ..... AR-15's are suitably named assault rifles and weapons of war because that's what they are so that's what I will continue to call them.

.
There is no doubt that mankind quickly figured out that firearms, all the way from the Chinese fire lance to modern day, are an efficient and relatively safe way to dispatch other human beings. Before then it was mostly swords and longbows in the theater of war; and the everyday murderer employed the knife or the garrote. Any firearm of any classification is an enormous improvement over those crude weapons.

What we call them and which gun is used in any particular homicide is completely irrelevant - like you point out, they are all pretty damned good at it. Humans have been killing one another from time immemorial and we will continue to develop new and better weapons to make that task more efficient. This is reality, at least here in the USA of 2021.
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Old 12-15-2021, 10:19 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,476,114 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
There is no doubt that mankind quickly figured out that firearms, all the way from the Chinese fire lance to modern day, are an efficient and relatively safe way to dispatch other human beings. Before then it was mostly swords and longbows in the theater of war; and the everyday murderer employed the knife or the garrote. Any firearm of any classification is an enormous improvement over those crude weapons.

What we call them and which gun is used in any particular homicide is completely irrelevant - like you point out, they are all pretty damned good at it. Humans have been killing one another from time immemorial and we will continue to develop new and better weapons to make that task more efficient. This is reality, at least here in the USA of 2021.
Good points.

Asking people to stop referring to the AR platform as an assault weapon is akin to asking everyone to stop referring to the Corvette as a "sports" car because it is infrequently used in any form of actual sport.

Who shives-a-git in the final analysis? Only those obsessed with the infinitesimal of minutiae.
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Old 12-15-2021, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Arizona
7,502 posts, read 4,346,150 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" All firearms were first invented to be weapons of war to kill other humans and nothing has changed about that throughout the entire history of firearms."

You don't have clue what you are talking about.

A BB gun CAN KILL.

Some rifles are made EXCLUSIVELY to be used in the Winter Olympics.

Many firearms are made for sport shooting and competitions.

MANY firearms are made exclusively for hunting.

Black powder hunting with RIFLES is big is some states.

You get 1 SHOT, then you have to reload.

That does not say some nut can't use that hunting firearm to kill someone just a car, knife, blunt instrument, like baseball bats, etc.

"because they have a more scary looking death weapon than other rifles."

Only to people like YOU who know very little about guns.

Are you just as afraid when you see a baseball bat?

Does the sight of a Louisville Slugger make you wet your pants? "Blunt objects were also used more than rifles, accounting for 443 deaths."

Or a knife? "more than four knife murders for every one murder with a rifle."

How about cars and trucks, swimming pools?

"FBI stats show 5 times more murders by knives than rifles in 2018"

https://americanmilitarynews.com/201...ifles-in-2018/

"So ..... AR-15's are suitably named assault rifles and weapons of war because that's what they are"

The AR-15 has become the No.1 choice HUNTING and "plunking" rifle in America.

You're probably afraid of your own shadow!

I do have questions for you. Did you ever serve in the military? Did you ever shoot a rifle or ANY gun for that matter?
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Old 12-15-2021, 10:56 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,158 posts, read 15,615,184 times
Reputation: 17149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I’ve never served in the military, so I plead ignorance. How does a soldier manage a sufficient supply of 30-06 ammo and en-bloc clips to be able to be combat effective in a world of 5.56 and 7.62x51?
Oh there was plenty of M2 ball in clips around. The ARVNs had plenty and they didn't like the Garand even though a bunch were handed over to them. They preferred the M1 Carbine. The Garand was to big and heavy. And my Dad was O4 his last tour. Squadron command. Cat Lo was his base. Putting in a ...request...for the armory to supply his rifle with good to go M2 wasn't all that tough. The stuff comes in clips. The clips were an expendable item. They were not intended to be re used.

And he wasn't firing gobs of M2 anyway. He would pick and choose clear targets and let the quad 50s M 60s and M 16s take care of area fire. Rank hath its privileges.
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Old 12-15-2021, 11:12 AM
 
16,536 posts, read 8,579,208 times
Reputation: 19373
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Gun Digest and Guns & Ammo are the ones who originally dubbed the ARs and other Kalashnikov clones Assault Weapons. You need to take your beef to the firearms press.
Link to said article/s ?
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Old 12-15-2021, 11:15 AM
 
19,717 posts, read 10,107,310 times
Reputation: 13074
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Oh there was plenty of M2 ball in clips around. The ARVNs had plenty and they didn't like the Garand even though a bunch were handed over to them. They preferred the M1 Carbine. The Garand was to big and heavy. And my Dad was O4 his last tour. Squadron command. Cat Lo was his base. Putting in a ...request...for the armory to supply his rifle with good to go M2 wasn't all that tough. The stuff comes in clips. The clips were an expendable item. They were not intended to be re used.

And he wasn't firing gobs of M2 anyway. He would pick and choose clear targets and let the quad 50s M 60s and M 16s take care of area fire. Rank hath its privileges.
My dad was in the navy in WW2 and used a carbine.
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Old 12-15-2021, 11:31 AM
 
10,702 posts, read 5,648,693 times
Reputation: 10839
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Oh there was plenty of M2 ball in clips around. The ARVNs had plenty and they didn't like the Garand even though a bunch were handed over to them. They preferred the M1 Carbine. The Garand was to big and heavy. And my Dad was O4 his last tour. Squadron command. Cat Lo was his base. Putting in a ...request...for the armory to supply his rifle with good to go M2 wasn't all that tough. The stuff comes in clips. The clips were an expendable item. They were not intended to be re used.

And he wasn't firing gobs of M2 anyway. He would pick and choose clear targets and let the quad 50s M 60s and M 16s take care of area fire. Rank hath its privileges.
Thanks! I had no idea all that would be available.
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Old 12-15-2021, 11:56 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,158 posts, read 15,615,184 times
Reputation: 17149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
My dad was in the navy in WW2 and used a carbine.
My Dad fell for the Garand in Korea. He was an onshore spotter for Naval gunfire. Mostly 8 inch from cruisers. His team got pinned down during Inchon. They were inshore with a Marine unit and as he told me it was a slugfest. That cemented his relationship with ye ol'M1 Garand.

8 bangs and a PING. lol
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