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How did the US "destroy all the industry that Communists built in Ukraine"? How many factories did the US destroy? How do we prevent Ukraine from producing anything but agricultural products?
It was an American idea to separate Ukraine from Russia, and to turn it into "anti-Russian project."
But how do you make a *country* that was always dependent economy wise on Russia to function?
Obviously, in the mind of American government ( and it happened under Obama) you are not going to dump billions and billions of dollars in the "creating jobs" and "social programs." Oh no.
THIS should be reserved for internal American politics, and particularly for "alleviating the suffering of the people of color."
So obviously, the formula for "Ukrainian success" must be different, full of austerity, cuts in social programs, elimination of heavily subsidized healthcare - with other words everything that makes the economy "efficient," and everything that the Democrats are so vehemently voting AGAINST in THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
But for UKRAINE the prescribed formula was precisely what I described earlier. ( Actually, it was the same formula prescribed for the Russians as well back in the 90ies under yet another democrat - namely Clinton. )
See, I am watching those things, and I wouldn't be surprised to see such prescriptions from the damn capitalists, money-oriented Republicans, but from the "Democrats"?
So that's the formula that was prescribed for the "future success of free and democratic Ukraine" - integration into EU economy, on the conditions of the agricultural appendix.
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The real drop in Ukrainian industrial output since 2014 is due to Russia's annexation of Crimea and support for civil war in Donbass.
That's what American media would like you to believe.
But it's not reporting you on the kind of the "economic reforms" that Ukraine was forced to undergo - does it?
Not only that, but the people in charge of those reforms inserted in the Ukrainian government were actually Americans as well, with *Ukrainian-sounding* last names.
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Russia has imposed trade sanctions and repealed the bilateral free trade agreement. As a result, EU is now Ukraine's biggest trading partner.
Why would Russia do anything otherwise, when they knew perfectly well, what this American project was all about?
Why would they subsidize the economy of the "country," whose newly installed regime was targeting the Russian speakers and everyone supporting the historical ties between Russia and Ukraine?
Erasure. A lot of people on these threads have not kept up with the situation nor have they followed it like we have.
Leo58. You really need to look into the history of this going back at least 3 decades if you want to know the truth. You also need to look at it in depth.
Erasure. A lot of people on these threads have not kept up with the situation nor have they followed it like we have.
Leo58. You really need to look into the history of this going back at least 3 decades if you want to know the truth. You also need to look at it in depth.
...and since the media is not doing its job, someone has to provide the public service, right?
What people want to do with this newly available information is totally up to them, but at least they should have it - that's the way I see it.
After all, what "freedom" is good for, if not for available information and an ability to arrive to one's own conclusions?
It was an American idea to separate Ukraine from Russia, and to turn it into "anti-Russian project."
But how do you make a *country* that was always dependent economy wise on Russia to function?
Obviously, in the mind of American government ( and it happened under Obama) you are not going to dump billions and billions of dollars in the "creating jobs" and "social programs." Oh no.
THIS should be reserved for internal American politics, and particularly for "alleviating the suffering of the people of color."
So obviously, the formula for "Ukrainian success" must be different, full of austerity, cuts in social programs, elimination of heavily subsidized healthcare - with other words everything that makes the economy "efficient," and everything that the Democrats are so vehemently voting AGAINST in THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
Not only that, but the people in charge of those reforms inserted in the Ukrainian government were actually Americans as well, with *Ukrainian-sounding* last names.
?
You still haven't answered my question - how did America destroy Ukraine's industry? We clearly didn't send planes to bomb Ukrainian factories and railroads. We didn't erect a blockade to prevent Ukraine from trading with other countries. How did the US force the cuts in social programs you mentioned?
How did America force Ukraine to separate from Russia? The leaders of Russia, Ukraine and other Belarus voluntarily disbanded the Soviet Union in 1991. The Ukraine voluntarily left the CIS in 2018. Can you give me some examples of those "Americans with Ukrainian-sounding names" supposedly controlling things in Ukraine?
How did the US "destroy all the industry that Communists built in Ukraine"? How many factories did the US destroy? How do we prevent Ukraine from producing anything but agricultural products?
The USA doesn't need to destroy anything literally.
Ukrainian puppet politicians do it themselves.
Imagine, you manufacture planes in the Ukraine.
You used to buy cheap components from Russia and China. Then, you sold cheap planes to Russia and China.
Now, the Ukrainian government doesn't allow you to do business either with Russia or China. It tells you to buy components from the West and sell planes to the West or Africa. Good luck with it!
Of course, the Ukrainian government promised that Airbus would come and invest in your company.
The USA doesn't need to destroy anything literally.
Ukrainian puppet politicians do it themselves.
Imagine, you manufacture planes in the Ukraine.
You used to buy cheap components from Russia and China. Then, you sold cheap planes to Russia and China.
Now, the Ukrainian government doesn't allow you to do business either with Russia or China. It tells you to buy components from the West and sell planes to the West or Africa. Good luck with it!
Of course, the Ukrainian government promised that Airbus would come and invest in your company.
Thank you.
( Particularly when they are receiving the instructions directly from Washington.)
How did America force Ukraine to separate from Russia? The leaders of Russia, Ukraine and other Belarus voluntarily disbanded the Soviet Union in 1991.
Yes it was disbanded, but the economic/cultural ties remained never the less, particularly when it comes to the Eastern part of Ukraine.
So the way America forced Ukraine to become separated from Russia, was by stocking the anti-Russian sentiment coming from the Western part of Ukraine, and expanding it across Ukraine, while supporting the suppression of the Eastern, Russian-speaking part of Ukraine as "undesirable."
This was American-supported policy from the day one of Maidan.
Americans were relying on the Ukrainian nationalists to advance their plans - plain and simple.
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The Ukraine voluntarily left the CIS in 2018. Can you give me some examples of those "Americans with Ukrainian-sounding names" supposedly controlling things in Ukraine?
The other inserted in Ukrainian government were of different origins, but they all shared one thing in common - their ties to American funds/educational institutions.
Yes it was disbanded, but the economic/cultural ties remained never the less, particularly when it comes to the Eastern part of Ukraine.
So the way America forced Ukraine to become separated from Russia, was by stocking the anti-Russian sentiment coming from the Western part of Ukraine, and expanding it across Ukraine, while supporting the suppression of the Eastern, Russian-speaking part of Ukraine as "undesirable."
This was American-supported policy from the day one of Maidan.
Americans were relying on the Ukrainian nationalists to advance their plans - plain and simple.
OK, now we're getting somewhere. I don't know why you're being so cryptic.
The US may have encouraged ("stoked") anti-Russian sentiment and also encouraged the suppression of eastern Ukraine.
That's a long way from "forced". Force usually implies being compelled at the end of a gun, or other threat. We didn't force Ukraine to do anything.
And what is wrong with relying on, and supporting, Ukrainian nationalists?
How to ruin a country economy by separating it from Russia.
Read - by breaking down Soviet Union.
Example. My native town in Western Ukraine had the largest bus factory in the USSR.
I lived about a kilometer away from it. Factory worked 3 shifts 24/7 and produced dozens of buses a shift.
After "voluntary dismantling" of the USSR, output fell down to six buses a day. Reason simple. Engines were made in Russia, transmissions in Erevan, other components some places else in what was the USSR. All those supplies came to screeching halt.
Do you have any idea, how long, how much effort and how much money it takes to reboot just one factory like this?
So yes, the first thing that was done was, in the best "democratic" traditions, to privatize anything possible. Just like it happened in the "gay 90s" in Russia, most of what was available was raidered or bribed into private possession by ex party and KGB figures.
Then, country started pleading for financial help, to "overcome obstacles of independent development". What was provided by WTO, World Bank and the USA, in form of loans. But, as you all know, WTO or WB does not simply give you money. You have to consent to economical development conditions, attached to the loan. As example, Bulgaria was one of the largest exporter of vegetables for Europe. But, it was banned from doing so, as one of the conditions of joining the EU, as one of the EU members already did that. Go look at Bulgaria now - it's a beggar at mercy of EU loans.
Same happened in the Ukraine.
Also, because of its strategic location, Ukraine was turned into a pawn in the muscle game between the West and Russia.
Most of the money, provided by WTO/WB, were embezzled.
American embassy in the Ukraine pretty much runs the show there. No one of any importance is elected or gets significant government/executive position, without first being approved by embassy.
As of right now, the Ukraine is being pressed into provoking Russia into hot military conflict. Apparently, there is not really much takers to do that in current government, with comedian as president. Hence, the US pretty much told them - sorry, boys, you are on your own now. No more $$$, no more support.
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