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That is not really capitalism, if by 'capitalism' we mean free-market.
What you describe as 'capitalism' is really corporatism, technically a variant of fascism. 'Fascism' was coined by Benito Mussolini. He wanted private ownership of the means of production, but with heavy gov't control and oversight thereof. It's actually approximately what we have today in the US.
Exactly!
Corrupt politicians abusing the system and using their positions in government to bribe, coerce and steal, to enrich themselves, their family, and their friends, and to punish their enemies, are lawless thugs. If a bank robber uses a car as his get-away vehicle, we should not be trying to ban the car. But that's what the left is trying to do with the free market system, by citing lawless abuses of the free market system to justify abolishing it.
Corrupt politicians abusing the system and using their positions in government to bribe, coerce and steal, to enrich themselves, their family, and their friends, and to punish their enemies, are lawless thugs. If a bank robber uses a car as his get-away vehicle, we should not be trying to ban the car. But that's what the left is trying to do with the free market system, by citing lawless abuses of the free market system to justify abolishing it.
The “free market” generates huge profits for a few at the expense of the many. It’s inevitable that those profits will be used to bribe politicians. People with enough money to bend the rules in their favor will obviously do so.
the fascist FDR was one of the worst presidents of the 20th century
Look up the definition of "fascist". Because you clearly have no idea what it is.
FDR pulled the country out of the depression and improved the quality of life for Americans faster then at any time in history. Unlike conservatives who just run the country into the ground with tax cuts for the rich. People today are still benefitting from FDR's programs more so then any other president. We wouldn't even have Social Security today if not for FDR. Conservatives sure would never give it to us. But they won't cut it either. Because that would be political suicide.
Somebody pointed out that Ronald Reagan got reelected a second time, so that proves he was successful. Well FDR got reelected four times. Most Republicans can't even get reelected a second time.
if you don't understand that socialism and communism are slavery, then I cant help you...suggest you go back to school and read
They are distinct ideologies. When you lump everything together you don't like and try to make synonyms out of them to fit your agenda, you are just proving you don't even understand what it is that you are hating.
Look up the definition of "fascist". Because you clearly have no idea what it is.
FDR pulled the country out of the depression and improved the quality of life for Americans faster then at any time in history. Unlike conservatives who just run the country into the ground with tax cuts for the rich. People today are still benefitting from FDR's programs more so then any other president. We wouldn't even have Social Security today if not for FDR. Conservatives sure would never give it to us. But they won't cut it either. Because that would be political suicide.
Somebody pointed out that Ronald Reagan got reelected a second time, so that proves he was successful. Well FDR got reelected four times. Most Republicans can't even get reelected a second time.
suggest you actually learn what fascism is , and not by some dictionary, but from the originators, and people who lived through it.
fascism is left wing ideology
Mussolini was a Marxist (leftist)
you should crack a history book....
fascism is socialism-lite
Mussolini was a followerofMarx
When you look at the origin of fascism all the founders of original fascism were leftists. All of then were either Marxists, or socialists, or radicals associated in Britain with the Labour Party, in France with the Socialist Party, in Germany and Italy with either the Marxists or the Communists.
to say that fascism is on the right, just because it is "not as left" or "it goes full circle" as full socialism, is like saying democrats are right-wing, because they are " not as left" as the liberals
Mussolini was a Marxist, who developed his brand of marxism/socialism... he called it fascism..
As an ardent admirer of Marx, Benito Mussolini called his version of Marxist socialism "Fascism". Instead of nationalization--government ownership--of private business, Mussolini advocated government control of business via complete bureaucratic regulation.
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""Fascism is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps most of the profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, fascism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is socialism."" Mussolini
fascism has its ties DIRECTLY to marx
Mussolini's election to the Executive was part of the capture of control of the Socialist Party by the hard-line Marxist left, with the expulsion from the Party of those deputies (members of parliament) considered too conciliatory to the bourgeoisie. The shift in Socialist Party control was greeted with delight by Lenin and other revolutionaries throughout the world.
From 1912 to 1914, Mussolini was the Che Guevara of his day, a living saint of leftism. Handsome, courageous, charismatic, an erudite Marxist, a riveting speaker and writer, a dedicated class warrior to the core, he was the peerless duce of the Italian Left. He looked like the head of any future Italian socialist government, elected or revolutionary.
In 1913, while still editor of Avanti!, he began to publish and edit his own journal, Utopia, a forum for controversial discussion among leftwing socialists. Like many such socialist journals founded in hope, it aimed to create a highly-educated cadre of revolutionaries, purged of dogmatic illusions, ready to seize the moment. Two of those who collaborated with Mussolini on Utopia would go on to help found the Italian Communist Party and one to help found the German Communist Party. Others, with Mussolini, would found the Fascist movement.
In October and November 1914, Mussolini switched to a pro-war position. He resigned as editor of Avanti!, joined with pro-war leftists outside the Socialist Party, and launched a new pro-war socialist paper, Il Popolo d'Italia (People of Italy).
Italy entered the war in May 1915, and Mussolini enlisted. In 1917 he was seriously wounded and hospitalized, emerging from the war the most popular of the pro-war socialists, a leader without a movement. Post-war Italy was hag-ridden by civil strife and political violence. Sensing a revolutionary situation in the wake of Russia's Bolshevik coup, the left organized strikes, factory occupations, riots, and political killings. Socialists often beat up and sometimes killed soldiers returning home, just because they had fought in the war. Assaulting political opponents and wrecking their property became an everyday occurrence.
Mussolini and a group of adherents launched the Fascist movement in 1919. The initiators were mostly men of the left: revolutionary syndicalists and Marxists. They took with them some non-socialist nationalists and futurists, and recruited heavily among soldiers returning from the war. The Fascists adopted the black shirts of the anarchists and Giovinezza (Youth), the song of the front-line soldiers.
Apart from its ardent nationalism and pro-war foreign policy, the Fascist program was a mixture of radical left, moderate left, democratic, and liberal measures, and for more than a year the new movement was not notably more violent than other socialist groupings.
Mussolini was showered with accolades from sundry quarters. Winston Churchill called him "the greatest living legislator." Cole Porter gave him a terrific plug in a hit song. Sigmund Freud sent him an autographed copy of one of his books, inscribed to "the Hero of Culture." The more taciturn Stalin supplied Mussolini with the plans of the May Day parades in Red Square, to help him polish up his Fascist pageants.
As Marxists used to say, fascism "appeals to the basest instincts," implying that leftists were at a disadvantage because they could appeal only to noble instincts like envy of the rich. Since it is irrational, fascism is sadistic, and nationalist by nature. Leftist regimes are also invariably sadistic, and nationalist, but that's because of regrettable mistakes or pressure of difficult circumstances. Leftists want what's best but keep meeting unexpected setbacks, whereas fascists have chosen to a different path.
Fascism was a movement with its roots primarily in the left. Its leaders and initiators were secular-minded, highly progressive intellectuals, hard-headed haters of existing society and especially of its most bourgeois aspects.
truth
F.D. Roosevelt, found in Mussolini's policies part of his inspiration for the semi-socialist "New Deal" and referred to Mussolini in 1933 as "that admirable Italian gentleman". Mussolini was plausible to an amazingly wide range of people -- not the least to the people of Italy.
And Roosevelt and his political allies practiced what they preached. As UPI financial journalist Martin Hutchinson has pointed out, the USA in the 1940s was a place "with price controls, government licensing of transportation, state intervention in the steel and auto industries, interest rates that were set by Treasury fiat and a capital market in which banks were not allowed to operate. Also a "democracy" in which electoral districts were wildly unequal and 15 percent of the population was denied the vote." By modern-day standards the USA of that time had considerable Fascist elements too. American Leftism was Fascist even then.
FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
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The Socialist party reaffirms its eternal faith in the future of the Workers' International, destined to bloom again, greater and stronger, from the blood and conflagration of peoples. It is in the name of the International and of Socialism that we invite you, proletarians of Italy, to uphold your unshakeable opposition to war". ...Musilini
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“Even with Europe in decay, still a war should have roused the healthy elements; a war should have awakened a lotof hidden powers, and surely so much energy would have been present among 250 million people that at least a respectable battle would have occurred, in which both parties could have reaped some honor, as much honor as courage and bravery can gain on the battlefield.” carl marx
And if Marx was not a Leftist, who would be? Mussolini's "Fascist" ideas were in fact Marxist, and hence Leftist.
fascism..socialism lite.. corporatism, massive corporations that run everything, CONTROLLED by massive governmental regulations and taxes..anti individual freedom, anti individual capitalism.. pro- crony capitalism (corporatism)
Nazism, fascism, communism, socialism , Marxism ALL come from the progressive movement..ALL are about REDUCING individual RIGHTS and freedoms
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"A Marxist/Fascist/Liberal begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of socialism, and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." Saul Alinsky
Zbigniew Brzezinski far leftist liberal (socialist) mentor to Carter, Bush1, clinton, cheney, and Obama and Biden
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"We cannot leap into the one world government through one quick step.... The precondition for eventual and genuine globalization is progressive regionalization because by that we move toward larger, more stable, more cooperative units."
Zbigniew Brzezinski again
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""This is a form of Socialism known as fascism, and it will be the type of world government the power elite plans ultimately to bring about and control. In this government, the power elite will control politicians who will become government leaders who will promulgate laws, rules and regulations favorable to certain transnational corporations"""
""""Stalin is my "brother".."""" - FDR after Tehran
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FDR gave a speech in Troy, NY, 3 March 1912, in which he laid out his philosophy - he(FDR) placed the "liberty of the community" over "the liberty of the individual."
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As early as 1912, FDR himself praised the Prussian-German model: “They passed beyond the liberty of the individual to do as he pleased with his own property and found it necessary to check this liberty for the benefit of the freedom of the whole people,” he said in an address to the People’s Forum of Troy, New York.
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"The Russian newspapers during the last election (1932) published the photograph of Franklin D. Roosevelt over the caption 'the first communistic President of the United States'." -- Senator Thomas D. Schall
Stalin called FDR in Dec 1933, "a decided and courageous leader." In 1934 he praised FDR's "initiative, courage and determination".
FDR defined Freedom of Religion as Stalin did.
FDR defined Freedom of Speech as Stalin did, i.e. he used the Marxist formulation 'Freedom of Information' in his speeches.
FDR pressed a bill to eliminate the right to bear arms, the guarantee of all others.
FDR told Churchill that "an unwritten Constitution is better than a written one." When reminded there was the Constitution, FDR said after his 1936 inauguration "Yes, but it's the Constitution as I understand it - flexible enough (to do what he wanted)." .......( much like Obama also stated) ....He admiringly told Churchill that Stalin didn't have to worry about Congresses and Parliaments, "he's the whole works." In a letter to a member of the House Ways and Means Committee, FDR wrote- " I hope your committee will not permit doubt as to Constitutionality, however reasonable, to block the suggested legislation." FDR did not believe in Constitutional checks and balances - he tried to destroy and was prepared to defy the Supreme Court and Congress. He did not believe in advise and consent or the rule of law - he waged war and made treaties without Congressional approval. He did not believe in representative democracy and often said that since Congress did not reflect the will of the people they should be ignored.
Probably the best exposition of FDR's procedures regarding the rule of law vs the rule of men was said by his top deputy, KGB agent Harry Hopkins, to his aides - "I want to assure you that we are not afraid of exploring anything within the law, and we have here a lawyer who will declare anything you want to do legal."
FDR defined democracy just as Joseph Stalin did - as the mere act of voting. (Of course he believed it was good to lie to the people to influence their votes. He also engaged in vote fraud - he won the 1928 NY Governor's race solely with massive vote fraud in Buffalo.) In a famous speech FDR said "The truth of the matter was that the public neither knew or understood what was involved...In other words, public opinion would be easy to manipulate." So much for the public will.
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In the North American Review in 1934, the progressive writer Roger Shaw described the New Deal as “Fascist means to gain liberal ends.” He wasn’t hallucinating. FDR’s adviser Rexford Tugwell wrote in his diary that Mussolini had done “many of the things which seem to me necessary.” Lorena Hickok, a close confidante of Eleanor Roosevelt who lived in the White House for a spell, wrote approvingly of a local official who had said, “If [President] Roosevelt were actually a dictator, we might get somewhere.” She added that if she were younger, she’d like to lead “the Fascist Movement in the United States.” At the National Recovery Administration (NRA), the cartel-creating agency at the heart of the early New Deal, one report declared forthrightly, “The Fascist Principles are very similar to those we have been evolving here in America.”
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The chief Nazi newspaper, Volkischer Beobachter, repeatedly praised “Roosevelt’s adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies” and “the development toward an authoritarian state” based on the “demand that collective good be put before individual self-interest.”
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On May 7, 1933, just two months after the inauguration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the New York Times reporter Anne O’Hare McCormick wrote that the atmosphere in Washington was “strangely reminiscent of Rome in the first weeks after the march of the Blackshirts, of Moscow at the beginning of the Five-Year Plan.… America today literally asks for orders.” The Roosevelt administration, she added, “envisages a federation of industry, labor and government after the fashion of the corporative State as it exists in Italy.”
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"""You know I am a juggler, and I never let my right hand know what my left hand does. I'm perfectly willing to mislead and tell untruths""""...FDR, May 1941
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FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
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New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
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In 1935 former President Herbert Hoover was using phrases like “Fascist regimentation” in discussing the New Deal. A decade later, he wrote in his memoirs that “the New Deal introduced to Americans the spectacle of Fascist dictation to business, labor and agriculture,” and that measures such as the Agricultural Adjustment Act, “in their consequences of control of products and markets, set up an uncanny Americanized parallel with the agricultural regime of Mussolini and Hitler.”
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In 1944, in The Road to Serfdom, the economist F.A. Hayek warned that economic planning could lead to totalitarianism. He cautioned Americans and Britons not to think that there was something uniquely evil about the German soul. National Socialism, he said, drew on collectivist ideas that had permeated the Western world for a generation or more.
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A Marxist/socialist/fascist/liberal begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order , and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." Saul alinski
communism.... big government (or communities)...anti-freedom...anti-capitalisms
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." bill Clinton
if we agree that socialism is leftist...and we have a far leftist saying that fascism is a FORM of socialism...then we can conclude that even by the lefts standards fascism is very much a leftist ideology
Fascism is already defined, sorry. It's a specific type of ultranationalist authoritarianism, which is inherently right-wing by definition. You can argue that socialism has historically devolved into fascism, or that the American Left is fascism wrapped up in a Leftist package, but please don't muddy the definitions.
Fascism is already defined, sorry. It's a specific type of ultranationalist authoritarianism, which is inherently right-wing by definition. You can argue that socialism has historically devolved into fascism, or that the American Left is fascism wrapped up in a Leftist package, but please don't muddy the definitions.
actually it is not...
to say fascism is right wing, just because it is not as left as socialism,... would be like saying that Democrats are right wing because they are not as far left as liberals....
fascism is socialism-lite...therefore it is left wing...you can NOT argue that
That is not really capitalism, if by 'capitalism' we mean free-market.
What you describe as 'capitalism' is really corporatism, technically a variant of fascism. 'Fascism' was coined by Benito Mussolini. He wanted private ownership of the means of production, but with heavy gov't control and oversight thereof. It's actually approximately what we have today in the US.
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Originally Posted by Freak80
Lol. Regulated capitalism is not fascism. Try again.
LOL. Yes it is, according to Mussolini, who invented fascism. LOL, what is your definition of 'capitalism' or 'fascism.' LOL, if you have definitions, which is probably a stretch. LOL.
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