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The Confederate banner isn't a regional banner that Black Americans identify with. And the majority of Black Americans are southerners. Have you ever asked why that is?
For the same reason why the Zainichi Koreans of Japan haven't demanded some accountability or removal of statues of Toyotomi Hideyoshi? Nevermind the man's efforts at unifying his nation prior to the Imjin War. Mimizuka is a point of egregiousness for relations between Japan and Korea but I think the general sentiment of Koreans is for it to remain standing as a memorial to past atrocities.
You're not going to find solidarity on this matter. There's fundamental differences between ethnic and cultural groups regardless of cohabitating the same region or making contributions to elements of the culture. African elements introduced like the linguistic Gullah, culinary in black eyed peas, or custom activities like the ring shout don't appeal or resonate to many whites. On the matter of monuments, I vehemently disagree with the memorialisation of George Floyd considering his activities in life which you could argue were less than anything meritorious relative to what some of the Confederate leadership managed prior and after the war.
Those are the symbols chosen by some Southerners. They could pick something else. Something that did not point to a shameful episode.
You mean that is 1 symbol chosen by a minority out of 100's things from the South.
If they didn't come as slaves to this nation, explain how would blacks today be Americans? It turned out great for blacks today, so is not a "shameful" episode. It had to be part of history or none of us would exist today.
It's like saying dropping 2 A Bombs in Japan was shameful but the fact is it ended the war and saved millions of people's lives and created generations of Americans and the neighbors of Japan got peace.
or would you rather have that none of them came to America and stayed in Africa where their life expectancy was horrible.?
you rather erase slavery from the U.S. and erase millions of Africans from existence like Thanos?
For the same reason why the Zainichi Koreans of Japan haven't demanded some accountability or removal of statues of Toyotomi Hideyoshi? Nevermind the man's efforts at unifying his nation prior to the Imjin War. Mimizuka is a point of egregiousness for relations between Japan and Korea but I think the general sentiment of Koreans is for it to remain standing as a memorial to past atrocities.
You're not going to find solidarity on this matter. There's fundamental differences between ethnic and cultural groups regardless of cohabitating the same region or making contributions to elements of the culture. African elements introduced like the linguistic Gullah, culinary in black eyed peas, or custom activities like the ring shout don't appeal or resonate to many whites. On the matter of monuments, I vehemently disagree with the memorialisation of George Floyd considering his activities in life which you could argue were less than anything meritorious relative to what some of the Confederate leadership managed prior and after the war.
The fact still stands that most Black Americans view the Confederate flag and Confederate monuments in a very negative way. A majority of Black Americans are in favor of removing Confederate monuments. There is a very good reason why Black southerners (the majority of America's Black population) will have nothing to do with that Confederate flag. It's not just a cultural thing. It's history. No group of people is going to identify with those who explicitly wrote in their secession documents "we want to keep Blacks enslaved and this is why we want secession and are willing to fight for it". And so far, no one has been able to provide a cogent argument as to why any Black person would identify with the Confederates as part of their southern heritage.
The Gullah culture is a very small part of the Black population in the South. Most Black Americans aren't part of the Gullah culture. And even with those African- elements introduced, plenty of White people in the South eat black-eyed peas. Go to Louisiana. Blacks and Whites eat similar foods. Go to the Carolinas and Tennessee. Blacks and Whites share the barbecue culture. Alot of Whites down south are Baptist and Methodist. So are alot of Blacks (I stand out, as I'm Catholic). Jazz was the work of both Black and White musicians. I find it ironic that there aren't more Blacks in country music (or listening to it), because there were some Black influences that went into country music.
Something else. George Floyd has nothing to do with this. And I don't know many Black people calling for the memorialization of George Floyd. I feel like that was just a gaslight move.
A banner for the South is suppose to unite ALL southerners regardless of race. The Confederate flag is the most divisive symbol one could have. This was the flag of the Confederates who fought for the Confederate cause. And that cause was to make sure Blacks being enslaved would continue. This was the flag of the segregationists during the 1950s and 60s. If there should be a banner to represent the southern USA, it should unite ALL southerners. And I mean ALL, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Pacific Islands, Mixed Race, etc. There can be no true reconciliation unless it's understood that the Confederate flag only divides people. There can be no true unity with the Confederate banner.
So which is it? Is it bad to equate Southern Culture with the Confederacy, or are Confederate symbols sort of all-encompassing symbols of the entire totality of Southern Culture?
It's actually quite simple. If a huge proportion of the South doesn't feel represented by whichever symbol you decide to display, then it's a poorly chosen symbol. The flag that was waved by segregationists and klansmen? Drop it in history's dustbin, with the other museum pieces. Thought you guys weren't much for participation prizes, anyway.
No, it's bad to equate the South as a whole to a battle flag or 1 thing. I never said you had to embrace the flag if you want to live in the South. The flag doesn't dictate what the South is about or what bonds millions of people together.
it's like equating the Latin culture mainly to a Spaniard battle flag or a few statues of Spanish soldiers when that culture is very deep in cuisine, language, music and art. So is the South.
What bonds the South is not a battle flag from 1861 that you dislike. You can hate it all you want but that is not what bonds the South together.
Those are the symbols chosen by some Southerners. They could pick something else. Something that did not point to a shameful episode.
Plenty of things could represent the South. My questions to those who claim it's only about southern heritage:
1) Is that really the best you can do? The Confederate flag and weddings at plantations?
2) Are you aware that a majority of Black Americans are southerners? The last I checked, Black Americans often view the Confederate flag and plantation weddings with strong disdain. Ever consider why that is?
And while we're on this, I watched an old film narrated and hosted by Ossie Davis. He mentioned that Blacks were rarely ever asked what the southern way of life meant to them. Quite often, whenever anyone would ask about the southern way of life, about southern heritage, it's mostly White southerners being asked about it. Very often, Blacks weren't asked what the southern way of life meant to them. Now, this is what I personally know thus far. There might be some interviews proving me wrong. However, it often gets left out that historically, and even now, the majority of America's Black population resides in the South.
The vast majority of Black Americans can claim southern heritage either by birthplace or having parents/grandparents/great-grandparents who fled the South during the Great Migration. 9 out of 10 Blacks lived in the South in 1910. Today it's more like 6 out of 10. However, given that statistic, we're not seeing Black Americans romanticizing plantation weddings. Rather, there is a strong aversion to it. There is also a strong aversion among many Black Americans to the Confederate flag and Confederate monuments. It goes back for ages. Those 5 years of the Confederacy are a shameful period. And it's a period that most Black Americans aren't romanticizing or relating to. There is a reason for that, and the Confederate apologists just don't want to ask those questions.
Plenty of things could represent the South. My questions to those who claim it's only about southern heritage:
Is that really the best you can do? The Confederate flag and weddings at plantations?
You are telling me that a battle flag of 1861 and a wedding plantation is what bonds millions of people in the South and that is what they put above all? above cuisine, music, family, economy, language, arts?
it's like saying gangster rap is the best thing Blacks can come up with and that is what represents the culture above anything else. You wouldn't accept it, so why you do it for the South and the millions of people that represents the South?
The fact still stands that most Black Americans view the Confederate flag and Confederate monuments in a very negative way. A majority of Black Americans are in favor of removing Confederate monuments. There is a very good reason why Black southerners (the majority of America's Black population) will have nothing to do with that Confederate flag. It's not just a cultural thing. It's history. No group of people is going to identify with those who explicitly wrote in their secession documents "we want to keep Blacks enslaved and this is why we want secession and are willing to fight for it". And so far, no one has been able to provide a cogent argument as to why any Black person would identify with the Confederates as part of their southern heritage.
The Gullah culture is a very small part of the Black population in the South. Most Black Americans aren't part of the Gullah culture. And even with those African- elements introduced, plenty of White people in the South eat black-eyed peas. Go to Louisiana. Blacks and Whites eat similar foods. Go to the Carolinas and Tennessee. Blacks and Whites share the barbecue culture. Alot of Whites down south are Baptist and Methodist. So are alot of Blacks (I stand out, as I'm Catholic). Jazz was the work of both Black and White musicians. I find it ironic that there aren't more Blacks in country music (or listening to it), because there were some Black influences that went into country music.
Something else. George Floyd has nothing to do with this. And I don't know many Black people calling for the memorialization of George Floyd. I feel like that was just a gaslight move.
A banner for the South is suppose to unite ALL southerners regardless of race. The Confederate flag is the most divisive symbol one could have. This was the flag of the Confederates who fought for the Confederate cause. And that cause was to make sure Blacks being enslaved would continue. This was the flag of the segregationists during the 1950s and 60s. If there should be a banner to represent the southern USA, it should unite ALL southerners. And I mean ALL, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Pacific Islands, Mixed Race, etc. There can be no true reconciliation unless it's understood that the Confederate flag only divides people. There can be no true unity with the Confederate banner.
Then it's an irreconcilable difference. The perception of the Confederate institution isn't limited to just the codification of slavery but as opposition to federalisation and the typification of an agrarianist way of life versus decadent urbanity which isn't universally slave centric. Syncreticism is a phenomenon that does occur but let's not pretend that it's an absolutist dictate for the purpose of some kind of notion of synthetic unity. What should represent the South for its own unique characteristics? The modern urban lifestyle that's become mass produced and is perceptible throughout the land? Music tastes which have been coopted and claimed by other areas of the US? Antebellum America is a uniquely identifiable era of the South and isn't something that should be repudiated in its acknowledgement for singled sided pacification purposes.
The Confederate flag is no more divisive than the pan-African tricolour banner which has come to characterise a number of current "initiatives" in the United States or the Antifa banner, though in their case their identity hearkens back to the original "antifa" movement in Germany that was spearheaded and financed by Stalinist Russia through Ernst Thalmann. How is this relevant one may ask? Equal scrutiny and the effort to ensure that this isn't just a biased deconstruction of one while the other thrives.
It's coming. They had to get those dead confederates first to then go after the others. You know this generation, they have to find any reason to get offended.
Exactly, the goalpost moving never ends with woke radical liberals. Wait until liberals find out the star spangled banner contains the word "slave" in it, we'll see mass looting and riots again.
George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves, you can't change or whitewash history liberals, it's documented facts. You can't cherry pick which historical figure slaveowners were good and which slaveowners were bad, they were all slaveowners.
Quote:
At the time of George Washington's death, the Mount Vernon enslaved population consisted of 317 people. Of the 317 enslaved people living at Mount Vernon in 1799, a little less than half (123 people) were owned by George Washington himself
If you think what bonds millions of people in the South above all is a battle flag from the 1800's then you don't know anything about the South and just want to hate.
I don't like 100% of the things from all cultures but I don't degrade their culture or region for 1 symbol or 2 out of 1000's things they offer and what really bonds them which is language, religion, cuisine, music, arts and their culture that makes them unique and different than other groups and regions.
That's like having an obsession with the U.S. because the WH was built by slaves and I hate people visiting it when that is not what bonds millions of people together in this nation.
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