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Good question and I doubt even Fauci has an answer. We did see in RSA that a 90% seroprevalence knocked down omicron faster than anyone expected (presuming that pattern continues). The US has maybe 80% but that is skewed toward the population centers and so-called blue counties. Some counties have less than 30% vaccination and have not seen a great deal of infection either. Cutting to the chase I would say there will be serious problems with hospital capacity and excess death anywhere it is less than 70%. But that is a guess. When it is over we will analyze the data and maybe learn something of value for the next wave or the next pandemic.
How do you figure? In Ohio, I'm pretty sure there's only one county less than 30% vaccinated, Holmes, where the Amish live. Why would counties like these not have seen a great deal of infection? It's been two years this thing has been circulating.
Thank you for your concern about my Christmas Eve. I think I can handle it.
The measures and precautions are voluntary. Only if people flat out refuse to comply should they be made compulsory. And, yes, the notion of quarantine and isolation is a proven method of managing the spread of disease. So are vaccinations.
I think quarantine/isolation as "compulsory" is fine for anyone that tests positive for Covid. Surely, anyone who is symptomatic and positive should quarantine until they have a negative test.
But what about the other 97% of us?
If I AM taking precautions - and not spending 15 minutes with somebody - then when I get symptomatic and positive, I can simply quarantine and notify any of my friends and family I'd been around for the last 7 days. If they live with me, they probably should test too and quarantine if positive.
How do you figure? In Ohio, I'm pretty sure there's only one county less than 30% vaccinated, Holmes, where the Amish live. Why would counties like these not have seen a great deal of infection? It's been two years this thing has been circulating.
I suspect Amish are not high transmitters because they don't interact outside of their community much at all.
They naturally have social distancing. They may have been very careful to wear masks, etc.
Right now we are having live music events, sporting events, gatherings --- and it is easily spread with those activities.
Not so much with Dad building a bench in the barn whil eMom does her baking in the kitchen.
I've been going to the stores since the whole thing started, lived with someone who had COVID and I've never gotten it.
It's not a lack of physical room, it's a lack of staff. We had this issue even before the pandemic. We have major nursing shortages right now. You can go build more capacity, but if there's nobody to staff it, then what?
OK but, regardless of how much of it is a physical capacity issue and how much has to do with staff capacity...they've still had two years to figure out the problem.
Did you read the article? There's a big surge there right now. And if they don't have staff, they don't have staff. Yes, there will probably be lawsuits. Have you really not read any stories of cases where people died because there were no rooms?
I will tell you that I had to take a kid with an asthma attack to the ER in September, when there was a big surge here. He was never seen in a room. We spent 8+ hours in the waiting room and that's where they saw him because there were no rooms available in the ER. Why? Because there weren't enough floor beds, and the people waiting to be admitted were in the ER. If you walk into the ER, they have to take you (eventually, when/if they have time), but if you go by ambulance, they don't. Ambulances are being diverted to other hospitals in these cases.
I'm kind of surprised you wouldn't believe these stories. What do you think happens when hospitals are full and there's not enough staff? They just magically conjure up some help? Healthcare, especially emergency healthcare, is a finite resource. We're in the midst of a pandemic. If there's not enough room, there's not enough room. People will die. That's all there is to it.
You missed the point entirely. I did read the article.
246 people waited 4 hours for a bed across the ENTIRE state of MINNESOTA. Do people think ERs sit empty all day long on a regular basis? That no one ever has to wait for a bed???
From the article: It doesn't have to be like this anymore, Hick said. Last week, his hospital system, along with eight others across the state, took out a full page newspaper ad, urging people in Minnesota to get vaccinated.
LMK when they take out a full page ad telling people to lose weight so they can stop the onslaught of obese patients with diabetes and heart issues that normally clog up the ER and take hospital beds,
OH WAIT: The Government is paying McDonalds to tell people to get vaccinated. So they can add to that comorbidity that makes them more susceptible to COVID in the first place.
it is a fact that 75% or more of hospitalizations are the unvaxxed, so there's the facts, which are great for squashing the politics.
I don't know how accurate that % is because of how highly politicized this pandemic has become. For example, a large hospital system in Southern California doesn't test vaccinated patients for Covid, but they test unvaccinated patients for Covid. How does that change the numbers if other hospitals are following the same protocol? So to say those are the facts is a bit dubious.
Regardless, everyone is making this about being vaxxed vs unvaxxed, and few are talking about all of the other therapeutic and preventative options that have nothing to do with these "vaccines". If we promoted supplements like Quercetin, Zinc, Vit D/C, and Allicin, the "vaccine" option would look idiotic.
OK but, regardless of how much of it is a physical capacity issue and how much has to do with staff capacity...they've still had two years to figure out the problem.
Here's the thing. The vast majority of the folks spending weeks in the hospital with covid are unvaxed. In some areas, it's gotten to the point where people are dying because there is no room for them at the hospital. The reason? The beds are filled with (unvaxed) covid patients.
I don't know what the answer is. I hate the thought of someone drowning in their own lung fluids at home because they refused a vaccination and there's no room at the hospital. On the other hand, I also hate the idea of all the hospital beds going to those who refused preventative care in the middle of a pandemic. At some point, we all need to accept the consequences of our own actions or inactions, and when the hospitals are turning away car accident victims and kids having asthma attacks because they're full of covid patients, then that might mean we're at that point.
So many words to say: Let them die. How much longer before it is completely normal to say "Let them die" without wrapping it up in all this hand-wringing and prevaricating? A month? Six months? President Biden is certainly laying the framework.
Medical care should never be moralized. The dilemma of who takes up hospital space is always with us. MOST people are in there because of the 'consequences' of their actions. They are obese. They are junkies. They have a gunshot wound because they are gang member. Shall we station a Morality Officer in the ER to sort it out? Or is it just the unvaccinated who should be punished?
It's not a lack of physical room, it's a lack of staff. We had this issue even before the pandemic. We have major nursing shortages right now. You can go build more capacity, but if there's nobody to staff it, then what?
But yet they think it's still acceptable to fire hospital staff that refuse to get vaccinated after they worked well over a year taking care of patients when there was no vaccines. The staff shortage is there because the hospital administrators created it by being politically correct and stupid.
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