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Old 12-22-2021, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,226 posts, read 23,649,798 times
Reputation: 38582

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The bottom quintile income group earns $25,600 or less.

Why is this even happening? It just keeps them broke and makes the rich even richer.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/stor...ies-2017-06-28
Quote:
...according to the study’s author, Torsten Slok, chief international economist for Deutsche Bank Securities

It’s worth noting that by the specialized nomenclature of the dismal science, even eating at McDonald’s is a luxury — that is, we do it more as our incomes rise — while smoking and lottery-ticket buying are categorized as necessities. For its part, the Deutsche Bank report explicitly defined luxuries as goods or services consumed in greater proportions as a person’s income increases and necessities as those goods or services that make up a smaller proportion of spending as a person’s income increases.
Not a very good indicator of what people are actually spending their money on. McDonald's does have a dollar menu, did Torsten Slok take that into consideration?
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Lahaina, Hi.
6,386 posts, read 4,795,783 times
Reputation: 11316
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
You cut out more than half of my quoted post, only to make a point that means nothing. Nothing ironic about how foolish you look.
I quoted only the statement that I was addressing, for the sake of clarity.

How in the world does that make me look foolish?

Hyperbole much?
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Old 12-23-2021, 12:18 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,673 posts, read 7,546,354 times
Reputation: 14944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristinas_Cap View Post
ah the working poor as the media lovingly call them. they always have money for tattoos, multiple dogs, steady diet of fast food, iphones, gaming consoles, drugs/alcohol and perpetual trips to retail stores like walmart and target.

their living quarters are typically disorganized, messy -unsanitary. too busy “working” to clean or raise their kids. basically live for the moment. impulsively does what feels good without looking at the big picture. would spend their last $20 for the week on a want vs. a necessity.
Do you have any evidence or references to support your allegation that the "working poor" live like this?

Or do you simply enjoy smearing and insulting people who don't do those things at all, but aren't here to defend themselves?
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Old 12-23-2021, 04:27 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,459 posts, read 9,322,722 times
Reputation: 22811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Do you have any evidence or references to support your allegation that the "working poor" live like this?
Google is a great resource:

Quote:
Google search trends across the U.S. and found that people in states with relatively high income inequality were more likely to search for luxury brands than those in other states.

Basically, people living amidst greater income inequality are more interested in luxury goods.
Quote:
Many low-income Americans can’t afford to appear like low-income Americans. It is hard to attract a romantic partner if you look like a loser. It is hard to get a good job if you show up at an interview looking like someone who’s never held down a job. And the more extreme income inequality becomes, the more pressure people feel to create the impression that they’ve climbed up the social ladder.

People who can’t afford luxury goods often feel they can’t afford to look like they can’t afford luxury goods.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterub...me-inequality/
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Old 12-23-2021, 07:01 AM
 
857 posts, read 433,279 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Interesting. They really are victims of their own making if they think that way. How can you really have any pride when you own expensive sneakers or the latest iPhone when you don’t even support your own children? And who is attracted to phony people like that? I’d rather appear poor and know I’m not than try to impress others who really don’t matter at the expense of my own financial security. This mindset seems like a real breakdown in values. Being cool is grossly overrated.
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Old 12-23-2021, 09:16 AM
 
46,891 posts, read 25,866,768 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
Interesting. They really are victims of their own making if they think that way. How can you really have any pride when you own expensive sneakers or the latest iPhone when you don’t even support your own children? And who is attracted to phony people like that? I’d rather appear poor and know I’m not than try to impress others who really don’t matter at the expense of my own financial security. This mindset seems like a real breakdown in values. Being cool is grossly overrated.
Adam Smith - grandfather of capitalism and pretty smart cookie all around - has something pretty wise to say on that, although in 18th century Scotland, it was linen shirts rather than cellphones.

Quote:
By necessaries I understand not only the commodities which are indispensably necessary for the support of life, but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people, even of the lowest order, to be without. A linen shirt, for example, is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. The Greeks and Romans lived, I suppose, very comfortably though they had no linen. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct.
We're social creatures. Shame and its mirror feeling, the need to present a creditable image to the outside world, are real things not to be ignored. And necessities can be as much a matter of custom and tradition as a matter of what is necessary to merely survive.

Anyway, that's me falling into the trap of discussing the moral implications of poverty - and having never been actually poor, I'm not really approaching the subject with a lot of valuable insights.
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Old 12-23-2021, 12:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,673 posts, read 7,546,354 times
Reputation: 14944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
So, no evidence or references showing that the "working poor" deserve the insults the OP came out with? Tattoos, gaming, fast food, drugs/alcohol, messy and unsanitary homes etc.?

Just gratuitous insults directed at them by a supercilious, arrogant poster safe in the knowledge the poor won't be around to debunk them or defend themselves?
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Old 12-23-2021, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
4,385 posts, read 5,118,833 times
Reputation: 3008
Nerves are hit.

Yes a lot of lower income people do live like some posters here portend. Who cares?

This is a very wealthy nation built on consumption. It goes beyond this country into the third world actually. You can live a decent life in Mexico if you wanted nowadays, but Central Americans bypass it (including common culture/language) to come here. “Better life” = more luxuries.
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Old 12-23-2021, 01:22 PM
 
3,187 posts, read 1,501,191 times
Reputation: 3213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Adam Smith - grandfather of capitalism and pretty smart cookie all around - has something pretty wise to say on that, although in 18th century Scotland, it was linen shirts rather than cellphones.

We're social creatures. Shame and its mirror feeling, the need to present a creditable image to the outside world, are real things not to be ignored. And necessities can be as much a matter of custom and tradition as a matter of what is necessary to merely survive.

Anyway, that's me falling into the trap of discussing the moral implications of poverty - and having never been actually poor, I'm not really approaching the subject with a lot of valuable insights.
Great points. If it's not food, utilities and the very basics of clothing it would be considered a "luxury".

I suspect much is spent on kids too.

I did grow up in a low income household. No one is exempt from the social pressures to dress a certain way regardless of income. In the late 70's/early 80's if you weren't wearing the latest Nike tennis shoes in my school you may as well not show up. Everyone would make fun of you if wearing a cheap off brand. We saw it as a "necessity". I bugged my dad relentlessly until he finally gave in. I know now as an adult he must have put it on a credit card as we couldn't afford them.

The same goes on today but even worse. Now the kids expect the latest electronics and iPhones. One of the janitors at my work talked about picking up extra temp shifts so she can buy her kid an Apple watch. Regardless of income the pressures to have these things are there for everyone.
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:47 PM
 
857 posts, read 433,279 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Nerves are hit.

Yes a lot of lower income people do live like some posters here portend. Who cares?

This is a very wealthy nation built on consumption. It goes beyond this country into the third world actually. You can live a decent life in Mexico if you wanted nowadays, but Central Americans bypass it (including common culture/language) to come here. “Better life” = more luxuries.
You care when other people’s money is being taken from them to fund the lifestyle choices of others who should be making better choices. You care because it’s wrong when society enables this bad decision making by rewarding it. Public funds should be very carefully distributed to those citizens who are truly poor, disabled and incapable of caring for themselves. Not to feed the families of people who don’t actually need public aid to eat.

You care because our current system supports a completely screwed up value system. Your pride should come from being able to provide for your family, not from owning the latest iphone or sporting a high end handbag.
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