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Old 01-06-2022, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
610 posts, read 264,202 times
Reputation: 927

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And how many children does he have?

 
Old 01-06-2022, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
520 posts, read 731,369 times
Reputation: 414
I actually agree with this pope for once, but it's a difficult situation. Someone like I, has always wanted a wife and multiple children. Unfortunately I've never been the most ambitous person. I'm close to 30 years old, still live with my parents, and I only work a part time job barely above minimum wage. I've never really found anything that I'm that talented at, so I've never really tried to improve my prospects for better employment. Also as far as I can see, even having a good job doesn't guarantee better propects of starting a family. I know engineers who still don't think they make enough money to start a family. That doesn't make me feel great about my future because I know most likely I'll never have a job as good as being any kind of engineer, so sadly I feel like my chances of having a family are unfortunately dimming year after year.

It sucks for me for a lot of reasons. I come from a pretty big modern family. I'm one of seven siblings. I always hoped I would have at least two kids. It just seems like the world cares way too much about money. I like living in a highly developed country, but it's gotten to the point where human beings whole worth is how good their job is and how much money they make. It sucks too that you have to have certain jobs to be considered marriageable, and deemed fit to have kids. You can't just work a minimum wage job. Even if you work hard at that job, a lot of people will view you as a loser who shouldn't have kids. I just find it really sad.

It also makes me think about all the talk about "labor shortages". There's no labor shortages, there's a population shortage that's only projected to get far worse. If you think grocery stores and restaurants are short staffed now, just wait, cause it's going to get much much worse. Maybe large corporations should start thinking about that and investing more in their employees who want to start families, as the offspring of those families will be the future workers they depend on. I've always heard all the talk of "automation", yet it seems like companies always have a need for actual human labor. A job like nursing for example is one we consistently hear about labor shortages with, and as the nursing shortage continues to grow larger in the coming years, it will probably get to a point where there is simply just not enough nurses to care for an increasingly older population. If you come from a larger family you'll probably be better off in old age if you have multiple of your own children, you have siblings, or you have nieces and nephews to help you in older age.

I just hope things change in the future. I feel like highly developed countries should be able to have wealth, happiness, and still have large families if desired. A lot of humans annoy me, but overall, I love humanity and I like to see large families. I do believe in God, and believe he made us special beings for a reason. And I do think he made us to go forth and be fruitful, including having multiple kids. I think he would want us to be somewhat productive as far as having jobs and making money, but not to the extent that that becomes our whole essence.
 
Old 01-06-2022, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Old Dominion
3,307 posts, read 1,219,145 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by 719inhere View Post
I actually agree with this pope for once, but it's a difficult situation. Someone like I, has always wanted a wife and multiple children. Unfortunately I've never been the most ambitous person. I'm close to 30 years old, still live with my parents, and I only work a part time job barely above minimum wage. I've never really found anything that I'm that talented at, so I've never really tried to improve my prospects for better employment. Also as far as I can see, even having a good job doesn't guarantee better propects of starting a family. I know engineers who still don't think they make enough money to start a family. That doesn't make me feel great about my future because I know most likely I'll never have a job as good as being any kind of engineer, so sadly I feel like my chances of having a family are unfortunately dimming year after year.

It sucks for me for a lot of reasons. I come from a pretty big modern family. I'm one of seven siblings. I always hoped I would have at least two kids. It just seems like the world cares way too much about money. I like living in a highly developed country, but it's gotten to the point where human beings whole worth is how good their job is and how much money they make. It sucks too that you have to have certain jobs to be considered marriageable, and deemed fit to have kids. You can't just work a minimum wage job. Even if you work hard at that job, a lot of people will view you as a loser who shouldn't have kids. I just find it really sad.

It also makes me think about all the talk about "labor shortages". There's no labor shortages, there's a population shortage that's only projected to get far worse. If you think grocery stores and restaurants are short staffed now, just wait, cause it's going to get much much worse. Maybe large corporations should start thinking about that and investing more in their employees who want to start families, as the offspring of those families will be the future workers they depend on. I've always heard all the talk of "automation", yet it seems like companies always have a need for actual human labor. A job like nursing for example is one we consistently hear about labor shortages with, and as the nursing shortage continues to grow larger in the coming years, it will probably get to a point where there is simply just not enough nurses to care for an increasingly older population. If you come from a larger family you'll probably be better off in old age if you have multiple of your own children, you have siblings, or you have nieces and nephews to help you in older age.

I just hope things change in the future. I feel like highly developed countries should be able to have wealth, happiness, and still have large families if desired. A lot of humans annoy me, but overall, I love humanity and I like to see large families. I do believe in God, and believe he made us special beings for a reason. And I do think he made us to go forth and be fruitful, including having multiple kids. I think he would want us to be somewhat productive as far as having jobs and making money, but not to the extent that that becomes our whole essence.
I think you're onto something regarding the demographic bubble and bringing about labor shortages. I don't see how you start to agree with the Pope regarding this issue, since one of your reasons for having children is more of a selfish reason (it's reasonable, but still selfish). Companies will have some need for human labor in the foreseeable future, but will those numbers may be a fraction of what is required now.

In much of the western countries, we do have an older demographic pyramid which could lead to some issues, especially if automation can't fill the gap. Immigration will increasingly have to fill the gap in many of these areas that automation falls short. What do you want to do about it though? Women who have post-secondary educations aren't as interested or able to have as many children(starting child rearing later in life). So many people are waiting until 25 to start their careers after going through a master's program, this will necessarily cut into family size. We live in a different society today, and larger families aren't necessary like they were in the past.

You really didn't illustrate anything to cosign the Pope's point on this issue.
 
Old 01-06-2022, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
520 posts, read 731,369 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecko_complex24 View Post
I think you're onto something regarding the demographic bubble and bringing about labor shortages. I don't see how you start to agree with the Pope regarding this issue, since one of your reasons for having children is more of a selfish reason (it's reasonable, but still selfish). Companies will have some need for human labor in the foreseeable future, but will those numbers may be a fraction of what is required now.

In much of the western countries, we do have an older demographic pyramid which could lead to some issues, especially if automation can't fill the gap. Immigration will increasingly have to fill the gap in many of these areas that automation falls short. What do you want to do about it though? Women who have post-secondary educations aren't as interested or able to have as many children(starting child rearing later in life). So many people are waiting until 25 to start their careers after going through a master's program, this will necessarily cut into family size. We live in a different society today, and larger families aren't necessary like they were in the past.

You really didn't illustrate anything to cosign the Pope's point on this issue.
I mean I don't know about cosigning, but I think me and Pope Francis would both agree we would like to see low birth rate countries be more open to having kids and families. So the general idea is agreed upon. And while I love my cats, I wouldn't put them on the level of a human. If he's talking specifically to Catholics, Catholic teaching would certainly put humans higher on the totem pole than cats and dogs.

And for me it's definitely more close to an agreement on an issue like this when I generally don't like or agree with the things Pope Francis finds most important. He usually talks more about things like man-made climate change (which I don't believe in) or support for refugees and immigrants (generally of the illegal immigrant variety).
 
Old 01-06-2022, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,641,969 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholomar View Post
Any hope of people starting families went out the window when starter homes in the $1xx,xxx price range vanished in flyover country during the last 12 months. We have the worst housing shortage in our towns history right now...nothing under $325,000....who's going to want to pay that to live in some rural town in the middle of nowhere?

Bad fiscal monetary policy...the blame lies squarely on politicians and the federal reserve. Have they put protections in place to keep foreigners and highly liquid corporations from buying up residential real estate yet?
However, to try to make up for being such a bad place to live, my rural town is offering people $5000 plus free coffee for a year to move there if you agree to buy a house there and take on a remote job. It's quite easy to find a two- or three-bedroom home there for well under $325,000. The town is just an hour away from Oklahoma City and Tulsa, so it's not all that bad of an undesirable place to live. The school system is not rated as being bad, so a plus for families. There are no old, rundown schools needing rebuilt.

Get paid to live in Stillwater:

https://www.makemymove.com/get-paid/stillwater-oklahoma
 
Old 01-06-2022, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,641,969 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
we're got too many people having children...that shouldn't have children

....and probably shouldn't have pets either...LOL
Oh, my, too much truth to try to take in!!
 
Old 01-06-2022, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,652 posts, read 13,998,393 times
Reputation: 18861
A and B

A: Well, someone has to be into Stewardship.

B: I am not Catholic.

Round 2, now that I have taken a painful plunge and read what CNN said, A and B again!

A: When we lose a pet, in my family, we immediately go out and get another one for there are always animals out there that need a home.

B: I'm an Enforcer and I know my home is not conductive to having children.

Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 01-06-2022 at 10:25 PM..
 
Old 01-06-2022, 09:50 PM
 
32,065 posts, read 15,067,783 times
Reputation: 13688
Is the catholic church going to pay for them because kids are expensive.
 
Old 01-06-2022, 10:00 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 456,538 times
Reputation: 635
Hell, I can't find a female to marry much less make the type of $$$ to have kids
 
Old 01-06-2022, 10:08 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,018,755 times
Reputation: 15559
He didn't exactly say -- couples choose to have pets instead of kids and that's selfish.

He said couples are choosing not to have kids, they may have pets....and that not having kids is selfish.

Thought it was odd that he would think couples make a conscientious decision to have pets over kids. It's not one or the other for childless couples.

And I chose to have three kids and totally think it is okay if people don't want kids.
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