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While I think the law needs to be amended for clarification, this interpretation is not absolute. Even if you are here without a visa, US laws apply to you and thus you are considered subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
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You are confusing the limited jurisdiction any nation or government has over their Right to enforce laws which govern the personal conduct of foreign visitors, and confusing that with jurisdiction over the sovereignty of their person. US visitors do not lose their citizenship to the US if they visit France, anymore than a visiting French citizen loses their sovereignty as a citizen of France once they step onto US soil.
You are confusing the limited jurisdiction any nation or government has over their Right to enforce laws which govern personal conduct of visitors, and confusing that with jurisdiction over the sovereignty of their person. Foreign visitors do not lose their citizen to the US if they visit France, anymore than a visiting French citizen loses their sovereignty as a citizen of France once they step onto US soil.
The amendment doesn't support your interpretation. You're adding context not spelled out in The Constitution.
"When the 14th Amendment was drafted, the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” had a settled meaning: It referred to a person who was subject to U.S. law. Foreigners who visit are required to follow American laws. They are, in every sense, subject to U.S. “jurisdiction,” or control."
All three branches of government have agreed on this interpretation as it's in plain English and the precedent in their agreement goes back over a century.
Would it be best to amend the Constitution to provide clarification? Sure.
I don't think a state has ever sued the federal government over this.
Last edited by IDoPhysicsPhD; 01-20-2022 at 08:19 AM..
The amendment doesn't support your interpretation. You're adding context not spelled out in The Constitution.
"When the 14th Amendment was drafted, the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” had a settled meaning: It referred to a person who was subject to U.S. law. Foreigners who visit are required to follow American laws. They are, in every sense, subject to U.S. “jurisdiction,” or control."
All three branches of government have agreed on this interpretation as it's in plain English and the precedent in their agreement goes back over a century.
Would it be best to amend the Constitution to provide clarification? Sure.
I don't think a state has ever sued the federal government over this.
CATO is a far left organization anyway. I could provide many links proving that babies born from illegal aliens are not birthright citizens according to the wording of the 14th Amendment and I have done so in the past but why bother as those who want this travesty to continue have an agenda.
We do not have jurisdiction over foreign nationals, because we do not have sovereignty over them, this does not change simply because they are visiting the US. We cannot prosecute them for tax evasion committed in their home country, nor can we prosecute them thru our laws because of their conduct at home. We cannot force them to pay taxes in the US for income they earned as a citizen in their home country. If a foreign citizen has two wives, we cannot nullify his marriage contracts. we cannot do these things because we do not have jurisdiction over foreigners.
We do not have jurisdiction over foreign citizens, we only have jurisdiction over our laws which govern their conduct while they visit here.
CATO is a far left organization anyway. I could provide many links proving that babies born from illegal aliens are not birthright citizens according to the wording of the 14th Amendment and I have done so in the past but why bother as those who want this travesty to continue have an agenda.
To break this discussion about jurisdiction down to its roots, if the US federal government cannot tax a person's wealth and income, then we do not have jurisdiction over them.
CATO is a far left organization anyway. I could provide many links proving that babies born from illegal aliens are not birthright citizens according to the wording of the 14th Amendment and I have done so in the past but why bother as those who want this travesty to continue have an agenda.
CATO is libertarian and leans right of center. The wording of the 14th amendment doesn't define jurisdiction so the three levels of government have applied the standard and accepted meaning as described in the article.
To break this discussion about jurisdiction down to its roots, if the US federal government cannot tax a person's wealth and income, then we do not have jurisdiction over them.
The idea that the government does not have jurisdiction on those who cannot be taxed and that we cannot take them to court or apply laws (even immigration laws) is just false. This is not outlined in The Constitution as you imply. We do assume jurisdiction over these people everyday. A lot of undocumented immigrants are thrown in jail, taken to court, and kicked out of the country under our laws even though you seem to deny it. And they should be as they don't belong here.
We do assume jurisdiction over these people everyday. A lot of undocumented immigrants are thrown in jail, taken to court, and kicked out of the country under our laws even though you seem to deny it. And they should be as they don't belong here.
Yeah,.I was a bit confused on how 'jurisdiction' was being used here in the thread.
It doesn't mean Any foreigner can just bust in here freely and work or pop a baby out and use services whenever they want with immunity because we 'don't have ' jurisdiction, right?!
We should be able to certainly grab them, detain them, jail them even,..and kick them out if here illegally.
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I could provide many links proving that babies born from illegal aliens are not birthright citizens according to the wording of the 14th Amendment and I have done so in the past but why bother as those who want this travesty to continue have an agenda.
