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Nobody in NATO wants Ukraine in NATO because then the sleaze, graft and racketeering that go on in Ukraine would fall under a system of rules and a touch more transparency, and none of the powerbroker scumbags in NATO want that. But none of them want Putin getting his hands near their till either. You have to think of Ukraine like the rackets controlled by warring Mafia families, with the US as one family and Russia as another. They don't want these rackets legalized because that invites cops, the FBI/DEA/etc and politicians into the mix and cuts them out, but they don't want the other family to gain the upper hand on the rackets either.
Except for for the RUSSIANS Ukrainians are actually a REAL FAMILY; they are joined at the hip even during the birth of the nation.
Except for for the RUSSIANS Ukrainians are actually a REAL FAMILY; they are joined at the hip even during the birth of the nation.
What kind of claims Americans have to Ukraine?
None whatsoever.
We are the new upstart rival family that seeks to yank control of various turf from the established Russian family. I have been screaming about Obama's 2014 coup of Yanukovych on this forum damn near since it happened.
Putin was a bit soft in 2014, and like every predatory gang of thugs ever, we sensed that momentary weakness and pounced on it. And Putin has been fighting back ever since. So have a big chunk of Ukraine's people. But most gang wars don't really concern themselves with the residents who live on the contested turf, just with which gang controls that turf. Putin has a far more familial claim in the name of those residents, but the US doesn't much care, which is pretty standard for interloping bullies.
But the whole Ukraine thing is the bad neighborhood where crime goes down and does so profitably for whichever gang happens to control the rackets. Putin's gang used to run it, and we came along and stole some turf, and now Putin wants it back.
The US griping about it is the very definition of crocodile tears.
We are the new upstart rival family that seeks to yank control of various turf from the established Russian family. I have been screaming about Obama's 2014 coup of Yanukovych on this forum damn near since it happened.
Sorry I missed your screams ( was not frequenting this forum too often.)
Quote:
Putin was a bit soft in 2014, and like every predatory gang of thugs ever, we sensed that momentary weakness and pounced on it. And Putin has been fighting back ever since. So have a big chunk of Ukraine's people. But most gang wars don't really concern themselves with the residents who live on the contested turf, just with which gang controls that turf. Putin has a far more familial claim in the name of those residents, but the US doesn't much care, which is pretty standard for interloping bullies.
He was "soft" for a reason - can't figure out whether he has been threatened or bribed by certain official coming from Switzerland (P's rhetorics on Eastern Ukraine changed after that visit.)
By now he realized what a lethal mistake he made back then.
Quote:
But the whole Ukraine thing is the bad neighborhood where crime goes down and does so profitably for whichever gang happens to control the rackets. Putin's gang used to run it, and we came along and stole some turf, and now Putin wants it back.
The US griping about it is the very definition of crocodile tears.
Pretty much this describes the situation when talking about "people in control."
How it's seeing "on the ground" might be a different story.
As I wrote in another thread, neither side cares about Ukrainians as human beings.
I am not sure that even powerful Ukrainians care about the people of Ukraine as human beings.
Why should power elites on the western and Russian sides view them any differently?
They don't.
Not much difference from the people of the Russia's "upper crust" towards their own population.
Which only confirms that Ukrs. and Russians are one and the same people, with minor regional differences.
Same kind of attitudes.
But when it comes to PERSON TO PERSON communication (or ties, (direct family ties including,) or feelings,) - that's a different story.
That's when Russians can claim their kinship with Ukrainians, Americans can't.
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