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Old 01-26-2022, 03:34 AM
 
5,743 posts, read 3,595,151 times
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Donald Rumsfeld.
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Old 01-26-2022, 06:50 AM
 
30,059 posts, read 18,655,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
oh please, don't erase the past fourty years.

It was conservatives who were demanding deregulated zoning laws so that Walmarts could be built atop national landmarks so a bunch of low-wage service sector employees could buy more crap from China and bolster our GDP.

And ANYONE who complain that were losing our country for 'economic efficiency' was yelled down as a union thug or big government dictator. They weren't happy until ever American institution was destroyed for sake of global supply chains, a hyper financialized economy, and more big box marts for people to BUY BUY BUY.

That was the conservative mantra. And anyone opposed to the destruction of America was an 'anti-American commie'. They had a bunch of rednecks stick made in China American flags on their pick-up trucks to support the war in Iraq and the Patriots Act.

They are doing it again with a bunch of Republican neo-cons trashing Biden for not sticking up for "Ukrainian nationalism."

Conservatives are the biggest frauds on earth, at least liberals don't pretend to care.
Revisionist liberal history. Liberals are always wrong, which is why they need to revise history.

NAFTA

China trade status

- These are the bastard children of CLINTON, who sold out the American middle class, lock, stock and barrel, for personal wealth.

In addition, during the Clinton admin, Chinese military technology advanced thirty years through transfer of technology from Clinton "donors", the chief of which was a former NYC parking meter maker.
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Old 01-26-2022, 08:30 AM
 
17,302 posts, read 12,233,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Revisionist liberal history. Liberals are always wrong, which is why they need to revise history.

NAFTA

China trade status

- These are the bastard children of CLINTON, who sold out the American middle class, lock, stock and barrel, for personal wealth.

In addition, during the Clinton admin, Chinese military technology advanced thirty years through transfer of technology from Clinton "donors", the chief of which was a former NYC parking meter maker.
Talk about revisionist history, NAFTA was Reagan’s brain child..

Here’s the very conservative Heritage foundation claiming victory in 1993 despite Clinton:
The North American Free Trade Agreement: Ronald Reagan's Vision Realized

The whole free trade, let jobs go wherever is cheapest deal was very much pushed by the Republicans while Democrats catered to the union vote. Yes Clinton signed it, but majority of Republicans in legislature put it on his desk.
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Old 01-26-2022, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,949,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Agreed-

The Clintons brought in the era of "grifter presidents", in which the Oval Office sought to sell whatever they could for wealth.

Obama persisted with the Clinton's "grifter" mentality, but markedly accelerated racial division and hatred of the nation. Obama was raised on the notion that America is an evil, imperialistic nation and the Obama presidency was designed to dismantle and punish the nation. Obama implanted deep state operatives who are no longer loyal to AMERICA, but are loyal to marxism and anti-American sentiment.

The "Biden admin" is just Obama's third term. We have the same, horrible, anti-American policies, corrupt profiteering, yet delivered by a demented white guy, so his policies are not given a "pass" due to race.
Are you writing a novel? This really sounds like fiction.
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Old 01-26-2022, 09:06 AM
 
3,643 posts, read 1,597,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
No. It was Nixon.

He started the outsourcing of jobs overseas.
Opened the trade with China.
Started the war on drugs which allowed the CIA and FBI to terrorize the poor communities.

Next would be Clinton when he passed NAFTA and gave up the USA's control of the Panama Canal.

But some will say that Nixon, Clinton as well as Reagan and Obama were actually following the orders of the Bush dynasty. After all, you really think it's the President of the USA that controls what is going on? No. It's the CIA and Feds that will hide things even from the executive branch. You think the President can demand to see Area 51 and be allowed to broadcast it on live television?????

And then I would go way back to Woodrow Wilson that signed the Federal Reserve Act, which gave control of the country's money and finances to a small group of elite people.


So basically, its a combination of people put into power by the super elite. They control both parties just to give us an illusion of choice.
Nixon also got rid of the gold standard, which let the gov spend unlimited fiat 'money'. Basically it was now ok to have a deficit and pass laws that hand out free 'money' politically.

Nixon did end the war in Vietnam. So he's not #1 on my list. Maybe #2.

Nothing is truer then the saying "money is the root of all evil". Whoever is #1 has to do with that. Likely the forming of the private fed reserve and it's enforcement branch. Then taxing your wages. The fiat money system is basically a 'fake' economy, created so that it can be manipulated by powers that be.
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Old 01-26-2022, 09:18 AM
 
Location: USA
18,491 posts, read 9,153,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
Talk about revisionist history, NAFTA was Reagan’s brain child..

Here’s the very conservative Heritage foundation claiming victory in 1993 despite Clinton:
The North American Free Trade Agreement: Ronald Reagan's Vision Realized

The whole free trade, let jobs go wherever is cheapest deal was very much pushed by the Republicans while Democrats catered to the union vote. Yes Clinton signed it, but majority of Republicans in legislature put it on his desk.
Informative post. The most significant piece of text from that heritage article:

“The approval of the NAFTA not only represents a victory for the U.S. economy and the American people, it also deals a blow to organized labor and other protectionist forces.”

They’re certainly right about that. Now labor has no power to resist business demands for ever-longer working hours and ever-lower pay. Businesses can simply threaten to send your job to some third world country, including white collar jobs.

There’s literally no hope for ordinary working people. Things will just continue to get worse for everyone but the top 1%.
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Old 01-26-2022, 09:44 AM
 
17,302 posts, read 12,233,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Informative post. The most significant piece of text from that heritage article:

“The approval of the NAFTA not only represents a victory for the U.S. economy and the American people, it also deals a blow to organized labor and other protectionist forces.”

They’re certainly right about that. Now labor has no power to resist business demands for ever-longer working hours and ever-lower pay. Businesses can simply threaten to send your job to some third world country, including white collar jobs.

There’s literally no hope for ordinary working people. Things will just continue to get worse for everyone but the top 1%.
Yep, Republicans got exactly what they wanted. Now that opinion has turned against such policies due to the results they want to blame Democrats for it? Ludicrous.

Last edited by notnamed; 01-26-2022 at 09:57 AM..
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Old 01-26-2022, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
Talk about revisionist history, NAFTA was Reagan’s brain child..

Here’s the very conservative Heritage foundation claiming victory in 1993 despite Clinton:
The North American Free Trade Agreement: Ronald Reagan's Vision Realized

The whole free trade, let jobs go wherever is cheapest deal was very much pushed by the Republicans while Democrats catered to the union vote. Yes Clinton signed it, but majority of Republicans in legislature put it on his desk.


actually it started with Carter


NAFTA was thought up by Carter....Zbigniew Brzezinski to be specific




Reagan was against NAFTA but his VP ( a student of Zbigniew Brzezinski ) Bush the senior (very liberal) pushed it, and as POTUS negotiated it...and President Clinton made sure it passed congress, even had Gore saying it was essential













==============


liberal (globalist) republicans did support it... AND.. the liberals (globalists) very much supported it...


labor unions were definitely against it.... but Clinton/gore pushed it massively




"free trade" was first suggested under Carter by Zbigniew Brzezinski to be specific


but it was Clinton/gore that did the "full court press" for globalism

and where did 'freetrade' (ie nafta, caftan, or Obama's ofta) come from...the globalist liberals

NAFTA dreamed up by carter... negotiated by globalist liberal bush1, passed by the DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS, full court press by Clinton to get it passed....signed by Clinton and EXPANDED by
Clinton



freetrade was started by the GLOBALIST LIBERALS.... started under carter

pushed and negotiated by globalist bush1

pushed and signed by globalist Clinton

expanded by globalist Clinton, globalist bush2, and globalist Obama (senator Obama even had his own freetrade agreement with Oman)

THE FREE-TRADE ACCORD; PRESIDENT BEGINS A LOBBYING BLITZ FOR TRADE ACCORD
By DOUGLAS JEHL,
Published: November 9, 1993

WASHINGTON, Nov. 8— President Clinton began an intensive face-to-face effort today to persuade lawmakers to throw their support behind the North American Free Trade Agreement as the White House added to his criticisms of labor unions who are the chief opponents of the accord.

Struggling to find the 218 votes he needs for the agreement's approval in the House of Representatives, Mr. Clinton met from morning until well into the night with pairs and small groups of Democratic members of Congress, nearly all of whom had not declared their position.

--snip--
THE FREE-TRADE ACCORD - PRESIDENT BEGINS A LOBBYING BLITZ FOR TRADE ACCORD - NYTimes.com
=====================


NAFTA Engulfs Clinton Team - Defeat Would Be 'Catastrophic' - NYTimes.com
WASHINGTON— Sharpening an already intensive lobbying campaign on the North American Free Trade Agreement, top aides to President Bill Clinton issued dire warnings on Sunday to reach for last-minute congressional votes.

A failure by Congress to ratify the trade accord would be "catastrophic" for U.S. foreign policy, Vice President Al Gore said in a broadcast interview.

Trade Representative Mickey Kantor said rejection of NAFTA would be "shameful." He also defended the White House against assertions that votes were being secured by promises of federal largesse to individual lawmakers.

Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen warned of "a real tragedy" in U.S.-Mexican relations if NAFTA fails, saying that Mexican politics would return to a era in which the United States was reviled.

Faced with considerable reluctance on the part of some Republicans, Mr. Clinton, a Democrat, promised to support them on the issue of NAFTA if a Democrat criticizes their votes in the 1994 election campaigns.

Mr. Gore reiterated the White House view that a defeat on NAFTA would be a blow to Mr. Clinton personally and to U.S. efforts to attain freer trade globally and in Asia.

========================

hmmm reluctance to pass NAFTA by the republicans, Clinton promised to SUPPORT them against the democrats......hmmm



---------

and as soon as nafta passed he went after CHINA

Clinton Puts a Foot In the Opening Door Of the Global Market - NYTimes.com

Such are the realities that Bill Clinton and his economic strategists have begun to acknowledge in a new vision of American relations with Asia -- a vision that Mr. Clinton spelled out forcefully at the meeting of Pacific leaders that concluded here this weekend. It is a vision that implies tradeoffs and job displacements far more wrenching than any posed by the North American Free Trade Agreement, which the Democrat controlled House approved last week after a Herculean display of Presidential persuasion.

Previous presidents have steered clear of the politically uncomfortable fact that Mr. Clinton addressed head-on on Friday: Creating a job for a factory worker in Seattle may first require creating six jobs in Jakarta. The new world order, Mr. Clinton suggested, seamlessly integrates security and economics. Indeed, he touted the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum -- the little-known economic consulting group under whose auspices the Pacific leaders gathered -- as something of a latter-day NATO. He said "our place in the world will be determined as much by the skills of our workers as by the strength of our weapons, as much by our ability to pull down foreign trade barriers as our ability to breach distant ramparts."

In political terms, of course, much of this oratory is about building on Nafta, Mr. Clinton's first big foreign policy win. Secretary of State Warren Christopher said Nafta should be the first out in a "triple play," one that now turns to economic integration of the Pacific and then to tearing down still more trade barriers under a new, much delayed global trade accord, which faces a deadline in mid-December.

------------

and he continued to EXPAND nafta...
Chile Is Admitted as North American Free Trade Partner - NYTimes.com

MIAMI, Dec. 11— President Clinton and the leaders of Canada and Mexico said today that they had agreed to admit Chile to the North American Free Trade Agreement, a move that clearly puts pressure on the other nations of South and Central America to speed the opening of their markets if they want expanded trade with the United States






and let's not forget there have been like 24 "freetrade" agreements...including OFTA, Senator Obama's deal with OMAN
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Old 01-26-2022, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
Yep, Republicans got exactly what they wanted. Now that opinion has turned against such policies due to the results they want to blame Democrats for it? Ludicrous.
sure some globalist (liberal) republicans supported it, but it was pushed and founded on liberal ideology...


and I have been saying for over 20 years that the globalist (socialist) "freetrade" deals SCREWED America



we had tariffs until the 70s-80s-90s when the globalist liberals eliminated them..... and when did Americas king of manufacturing go down..with the loss of tarrifs, and jobs to overseas


liberals never use their brains




its actually simple..... freetrade (globalization) an invention of liberals (starting during the Carter admin) is not free and costs jobs

the globalist liberals pushed the freetrade agreements

nafta and all her sisters(freetrade agreements) did just that...sent jobs overseas

today we are getting killed by all these 'freetrades'

the freetrade movement started in the 70's and has been chugging alongs, pushed by carter, by bush1(as vp and potus), bush1 even negotiated nafta, pushed by nafta signer Clinton through a democrat controlled congress, and bush2, and obama

you can not have "freetrade" when the costs of living (and manufacturing (to include wages, property taxes, and even utilities) are so uneven

one of the biggest problems is taxes to begin with

and not enough import tariffs, to curb the cheapness of importing into

think about it,,, you have a business, and need to open a ware house:

do you open a warehouse/factory in a city, county, state, or country with a high CORPORATE tax rate or a low tax rate

do you open a warehouse/factory in a city, county, state, or country with a high PROPERTY tax rate or a low tax rate

do you open a warehouse/factory in a city, county, state, or country with a high INCOME tax rate or a low tax rate

do you open a warehouse/factory in a city, county, state, or country with high COST OF LIVING (housing costs, etc) or a low COL

do you open a warehouse/factory in a city, county, state, or country with a high wage expectation, or a low

do you open a warehouse/factory in a city, county, state, or country with high utility rates or lower rates


bet you say low for all those questions

the freetrade agreements (there's like 26 since nafta) nafta/cafta to include Senator Obama's OFTA (freetreade with oman) is what has caused over 50-60 million jobs to leave the USA and to go overseas


they (the so called freetrade agreements) are not capitalism, but crony capitalism..aka globalism.. they are not capitalism, they are government(s) manipulating things

ALL should be repealed





get all the 'freetrade' agreements (like nafta and its 26 other sisters) thrown out, and bring back the import tarrifs(like Trump wants to do)... good paying manufacturing jobs and REVENUE will rise dramatically




tariffs are a god thing, they level the playing field... but the globalist liberals don't want them, because they would rather have china win than America






it is not the free market


free trade is not free market...its the globalist liberal government pushing socialism/globalism which makes the markets NOT free and un even


when the liberals of the 80's and 90's and even the 00's eliminated the import tariffs they made the "market" uneven


an import tariff is a good thing

how about this question


why is Apple (an American company) manufacturing all its products in china, and not the Silicon Valley???? why should apple be allowed to import its foreign made products into the USA for free??? why is Apple screwing Americans, selling phones at $700+ a pop, while they are making them for 80 cents by paying slave wages to Chinese and not American wages to Americans??






I, and most educated Americans, want the iPhone/ipad made in America,... Apple is an American company, it should be making its product here, using an American workforce, made by Americans, for Americans @ American wages


that is the point of these tariffs, to reverse the outsourcing from the globalist liberal policies of "freetrade"


the key to these tariffs, not the country of origin, but that American companies have outsourced our labor force


why should GE (an American company HQ'd in Boston) make all its alarm clocks etc in Mexico and Malaysia???
think about it
median USA hourly wage is 23-25/hr
median Mexico wage 160/week

and you wonder why GE makes all its alarm clocks in Mexico.... and PAYS ZERO to import them to the USA... do you think that is really fair??




why should GM (an American company HQ'd in Detroit, MI) make all its vehicles in Mexico???
think about it
GM assembly plant average hourly wage USA hourly wage is 45/hr
median Mexico wage 160/week

and you wonder why GM moved its assembly plants to Mexico.... and PAYS ZERO to import them to the USA... do you think that is really fair??




why should Apple (an American company HQ'd in Cupertino, California, ) make all its iphines, ipads, etc in china
think about it
median USA hourly wage is 23-25/hr
median china wage 228/week

and you wonder why Apple makes all its electronics in China and not the Silicon Valley.... and PAYS ZERO to import them to the USA... do you think that is really fair??






who pushed the "free trade" agreements...the globalist liberal democrats and the neo-cons (liberals)...and who FAUGHT Trump when he wanted to bring back import tariffs ….the liberals
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Old 01-26-2022, 11:13 AM
 
17,302 posts, read 12,233,399 times
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Yeah, no. NAFTA was part of Reagan's 1980 campaign. Laid out in his candidacy announcement. Before that Nixon removed trade restrictions with China and pushed for more free trade and fought tariffs.

RONALD REAGAN 40th President of the United States: 1981 ‐ 1989 Remarks Announcing Candidacy for the Republican Presidential Nomination
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