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Most people, as I have said repeatedly, are honest with themselves about their own S/RMV. I'd say the VAST majority. But social media culture tends to grossly magnify a small population into some faux national crisis. It isn't.
The incel male is a small population, but social media wants you think it is some gazillion man army. It isn't. Your experience is the rule, and these incel males and post-wall women on social media are the exception...they just have more free time and bigger social media megaphones than you, so your rule goes unheard while their exception becomes "the story."
Everyone in my family on both sides is happily married, has kids, etc. Most of our friends are as well, and acquaintances, etc. But we all live in the real world, not that imaginary land of social media that people think is the real world. It's like the "twitter mob" that people think number in the 10s of millions, when it is like a couple dozen griefers who post twitter vomit constantly.
That said, I still maintain that if anyone thinks there is a masculinity crisis, look no further than the last two generations of men being raised by women, spending their formative years surrounded by almost nothing but women, and a post 1960s feminism demand that men become more feminine. If you are looking for circa WW2 rugged Marlboro Man types...good luck. They are almost extinct.
The incel population is small. However, it has a strong online presence. It has sadly gained notoriety due to some of the mass shootings that has taken place.
I think the "masculinity crisis " isn't a lack of masculinity. It think it's a matter of a changing economy and social dynamics. As more white collar/knowledge based jobs have expanded, this has led to a shift. Less brawn labor and more brain labor. As more men join the white collar ranks, it's not required to be big and brawny. You don't need to be Marlboro Man to be an engineer or an accountant.
Plenty of manly men working on the oil rigs, shipyards, and construction sites. Plenty of manly men working as line cooks, farmers, plumbers, and welders.
If you live in a safe neighborhood where you're life isn't constantly at risk, your mindset will be different. Plenty of "rough and tumble" types out there. Many live in the ghettos.
3rd wave feminist ideals have had some bad impacts. However, I think about this. In the ghettos throughout America. Plenty of single mother homes in those areas, particularly poor Black areas. Not that many "soy boys " in poor Black neighborhoods. If you're a soy boy you will get killed. You have to be rough and tumble to survive.
I wouldn't aspire to be Marlboro Man. He smokes and wouldn't live very long as a result.
My sister did an ancestry test and she found out her ex-boyfriend was her 4th-6th cousin. She was all grossed out about it. But honestly, not only are there zero risks to mating with a fourth cousin, there are actually benefits. Supposedly your ideal genetic pairing is your third-cousin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale
LOL. 6th cousin you have is one set of your great great great great great grandparents in common. That is ca 1750 for me. 30 years of genealogy and I am only complete through my 3x great grandparents tho I have all but 2 of my 4x great grandparents. (2 women missing their maiden surnames) VERY VERY few people are going to have a complete line to five great grandparents.
That makes me fell a little better about the "inappropriate" thoughts I had growing up. A few of my 3rd cousins were kind of cute.
But yeah again , just another irrational artifact of modern society. People found their mates a thousand miles away by mule?
I've been thinking about this all day, in terms of manhood. One major issue is the inability to define what being a man really means. It's one major reason I think we don't have a lack of masculinity. I think we fail to define what it is.
I think some of it is that in today's society we allow people to be who they are, even who they feel they are. Back in earlier days, and I'm thinking as early as the 60's 70's when I grew up, society told us what being a man was, how boys/men were expected to look and to act, even what they should like and not like. If a boy/man did not fit this laid out definition of manhood, he was mocked and chastised.
I remember when guys started wearing their hair long and when they started getting that one ear pierced. I remember hearing the elders say they were sissy boys and not masculine men.
So now men look and act how they are comfortable being instead of trying to maintain that image of what manhood is and there are still people who want to put them back in that box.
As far as things like work ethic, supporting and protecting a family, being the leader of the family, etc. I feel that more of a social constraint than measure of manhood. Times have changed and continue to change and men are not needed to take on 100% of that burden, not that they always did. Sure, many women still want that in a man and many men still want a woman to be submissive and feminine but if you dont roll that way I dont think it makes anyone less masculine or less of a man or less feminine or less of a women for that matter.
I think some of it is that in today's society we allow people to be who they are, even who they feel they are. Back in earlier days, and I'm thinking as early as the 60's 70's when I grew up, society told us what being a man was, how boys/men were expected to look and to act, even what they should like and not like. If a boy/man did not fit this laid out definition of manhood, he was mocked and chastised.
I remember when guys started wearing their hair long and when they started getting that one ear pierced. I remember hearing the elders say they were sissy boys and not masculine men.
So now men look and act how they are comfortable being instead of trying to maintain that image of what manhood is and there are still people who want to put them back in that box.
As far as things like work ethic, supporting and protecting a family, being the leader of the family, etc. I feel that more of a social constraint than measure of manhood. Times have changed and continue to change and men are not needed to take on 100% of that burden, not that they always did. Sure, many women still want that in a man and many men still want a woman to be submissive and feminine but if you dont roll that way I dont think it makes anyone less masculine or less of a man or less feminine or less of a women for that matter.
It is a bizarre hybrid of faux tolerance to be who you are, lack of incentives and opportunities, and then gaslighting people when they fail. Communism, Fascism, and Jim Crow were all more just societies in comparison to today's Late Stage Capitalist America. What shall replace it ?
You seem to be speaking for all men. What I read is indeed sour grapes. We all have relationship problems at one time or another. Most of us are even a little bitter for a while, but most of us, men and women alike to not hold onto that and make it the focus of our lives. When most discuss problems they are not spewing hatred toward the opposite sex.
Most men do not devalue women with multiple sex partners. For some time now many, many, people have had multiple sex partener before they enter into a committed relationship. The days of expecting your partner to be a virgin are long gone. As is the expectation that your partner will not have another man's or womans child.
You kid yourself that women are sitting around waiting to snatch up a obese middle age man paying child support for three kids because he has a job and a great personality. You seem to ignore the facts that half of the workforce are women, that women are gaining in financial security, and that it is men more so than women who remarry, as well the vast majority of couples who marry are of similar socio-economic backgrounds and with in an average of 2.3 years age difference.
Many of the younger men I've dealt with appear to have lost their sense of self worth and self confidence. It's my belief the media (as in all media) has played a large part in this. The feminist movement created a bunch of Feminazies who constantly discredit traditional male values. One slogan they had in the '70's "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Which quickly became "Have it all, a family and a career!" So, women don't need men ? Apparently we are only necessary for pro-creation and income.
So do men need women?
Why do women need men for income today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver 47
From 1960 until the '80's it seemed as if everyone I knew was either getting a divorce or recovering from one. I don't know if this affected the marriage rates but watching a few friends go through a divorce spooked me into postponing any future marriage or co-habitation. I lived as a bachelor until my late 30's. I believe this actually increased my own self confidence & self worth greatly. I learned how to cook, do my own laundry and replace a button when it fell off my shirt. I bought my first house as a bachelor which is no easy feat.
So you dont need women, as women dont need men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver 47
The most important thing I learned for myself is you need to fail so you can succeed.
It's my belief boys fail because of a combination of "helicopter parenting" combined with an assault of negative media they are so coddled and downtrodden that for the first time they fail as a group to function in society.
A return to traditional values could be one possible answer. Being involved in your children's lives is critical. Far too many people in general leave the raising of their children to strangers (nannies, daycare and schoolteachers) When parents arrive back home after work do they even have conversations anymore ? Is it just one word answers via text ? or grunts over a microwaved meal ? As the old song goes; "Teach your children well..."
Society can change but it's going to take real effort. Put down the phone, step away from the keyboard and talk to them.
You say boys fail (not sure how they are failing) due to helicopter parenting then you say women should not work but be home 24/7 with their children.
I'm not sure why you think parents dont interact with their children nor am I sure what the difference in leaving your child in daycare or nannies before the age of 5 and having someone else with them 8 hours a day once they start school.
You seem ineducable refusing to actually consider actual facts, dont worry, you will be fine.
This riposte lacks one important thing. It lacks a sabre.
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