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Old 01-29-2022, 10:37 AM
 
35,512 posts, read 17,676,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
https://slate.com/technology/2014/04...e-success.html

I think a lot of people falsely equate their worth as a human with things like academic performance and therefore test scores can cause hurt feelings that makes them deny the reality of SAT scores being strongly correlated to college success. In many cases the SAT has identified poor minorities for scholarships and admissions.

The statistics are extremely clear. Exceptions are exceptions not the overwhelming trend. Grade inflation is on the rise making grades less and less relevant.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ollege-success

If you google the question, is a high SAT correlated with college success, you'll find CollegeBoard articles (that own the SAT) saying yes.

Others say no.

I'd be interested if you have a link saying SAT scores (in the absence of other criteria) are a good indicator of college success, written within the last 5 years, and not hosted by CollegeBoard.com

(Your link is quoting collegeboard. If you ask Toyota if their cars are good, they'll say yes).

 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:39 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,521 posts, read 44,230,479 times
Reputation: 13496
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
How in the world did this conversation turn around to people's financial decisions and credit card debt?
The example I gave regarding debt was a multiple choice question that the vast majority of people didn't research. You're ignoring that because I proved that you're wrong.
 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Toronto
2,802 posts, read 3,834,134 times
Reputation: 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Well, it sure seems like the teachers union members have done a bang up job pumping out illiterate kids, guess we need to give them all pay and benefits increases now.

I remember reading articles where college professors were complaining that their students actually turn in papers with the same abbreviated, pop culture text shortcuts to speech that they type into their phones. Seems they were not making that up.
Teachers can only do so much. Parents have to be involved in their child’s learning or else they are likely to have poor reading and writing skills.

It doesn’t help that, in most public schools, class sizes are 30+, with no teaching assistants to work with students who need extra help. Reading and writing are fundamental skills, but a teacher is responsible for teaching them to 30+ students at-a-time.

I learned to read and write before grade one because my mom was proactive in finding games I could play by myself or with her to learn spelling. When I started grade one, I already had that advantage over the kids whose parents expected teachers to be their children’s babysitter, educator, mentor, role model, parental figure, behavior coach, etc.

Do you know what % of the US budget goes to building weapons systems compared to education?
Schools could be much better, but that simply isn’t the country’s priority. The government spends almost no money on education, relatively speaking. Teachers in the US are paid near-poverty wages in many states. They are perhaps the only civil servants who are required to have a Master’s Degree so they can live just above the poverty line.

It’s so easy to blame teachers. The real problem is that education is simply not valued in the US. Its budget - and the part of the budget that goes to primary schools and high schools - is negligible. Parents expect teachers to educate their children, but that is ultimately a parent’s responsibility. If you want schools to do more, start phoning your representative in Congress and demanding more money for education.
 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:44 AM
 
26,122 posts, read 14,759,406 times
Reputation: 14316
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ollege-success

If you google the question, is a high SAT correlated with college success, you'll find CollegeBoard articles (that own the SAT) saying yes.

Others say no.

I'd be interested if you have a link saying SAT scores (in the absence of other criteria) are a good indicator of college success, written within the last 5 years, and not hosted by CollegeBoard.com

(Your link is quoting collegeboard. If you ask Toyota if their cars are good, they'll say yes).
If you ask woke people or people pushing equity they'll say standardized tests are bad.

Funny how the SAT gives nationwide statistics of hundreds of thousands of people over years while the woke give anecdotal silly responses that somehow convinces those preinclined to having feelings hurt by test scores.
 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Coastal Mid-Atlantic
6,706 posts, read 4,355,906 times
Reputation: 8301
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You have multiple children right now in the school system? That's what you are basing all of your opinions on?

Its not the school systems. EVERYBODY thinks their kids are special. They aren't. Probably a genius with cell phone texting, and mind numbing hours of video games. But academically, you helped create their learning disabilities.
 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:47 AM
 
35,512 posts, read 17,676,943 times
Reputation: 50476
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
If you ask woke people or people pushing equity they'll say standardized tests are bad.

Funny how the SAT gives nationwide statistics of hundreds of thousands of people over years while the woke give anecdotal silly responses that somehow convinces those preinclined to having feelings hurt by test scores.
I'm not talking about woke people.

I'm talking about the debate whether the SAT is a good indicator of college success. And that debate has been going on for decades. When they added the written component and required all students to take it, they weren't "counting" the written portion because colleges didn't yet know whether the ability to write a good essay is a good predictor of success. Turns out, that portion is a pretty good indicator.

And for decades, public schools parents (and teachers) have railed against the STAAR test, as being a huge waste of time and not a good part of the educational process. Whereas end of course exams in high school that are standardized (and not multiple choice) would be a great idea to assess student achievement. Like a final, where all school districts off the same final for each course across the state. Perfect.

Multiple choice testing that's focused on accessing the child's ability, and not knowledge, (which is what the SAT does) in the absence of other positive indicators of a student's success, isn't all that helpful.
 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:52 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
5,658 posts, read 2,618,212 times
Reputation: 7165
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
If you ask woke people or people pushing equity they'll say standardized tests are bad.

Funny how the SAT gives nationwide statistics of hundreds of thousands of people over years while the woke give anecdotal silly responses that somehow convinces those preinclined to having feelings hurt by test scores.
The SAT's have been dumbed down over the last few years. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal, this week, about how the test is going fully digital, the reading passages are being shortened with only one question to answer, calculators will be allowed on all math portions of the test, and the exam period goes from three hours to two hours. They're becoming worthless, all on their own accord.

The part I thought was interesting was where it said that 76% of Colleges and Universities will no longer consider SAT/ACT scores. It's as though these changes are being made to try to survive (at the expense of the student's academic success).

I detest the exam going fully digital. I actually liked having to go somewhere, with a group of my peers, to test. It felt like I accomplished something. With everything going digital, nothing feels real anymore. Everyone's real experiences are evaporating before our eyes.

Here's the original article, if you have a subscription: https://www.wsj.com/articles/sat-to-...ts_pos4&page=1
 
Old 01-29-2022, 10:54 AM
 
21,561 posts, read 9,180,607 times
Reputation: 19055
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete98146 View Post
If this saddens you, and it should, wait until we get the results back on their critical thinking skills!
We already are! Look who's running the country. Big companies are hired unqualified equity hires and they can't even do the jobs. They don't last long in the positions because they move on and get paid more by a different company looking to hire a diversity hire. It's all about the bucks.
 
Old 01-29-2022, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Western PA
10,168 posts, read 4,109,721 times
Reputation: 6279
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I have a close family member who works in admissions at a major Texas university.

After looking at the SAT for decades, they've determined that students who flunk out, and don't leave their dorm rooms, and drop classes so they fall below full time status, who linger and don't graduate, typically have SAT scores that are higher than expected, for that outcome.

Because SAT isn't an indicator of success, taken in the absence of other factors like high school performance.

Especially a caution is the student who scores very well on the SAT but is in the bottom quartile of their class. Something colleges used to think was fine - they set an SAT bar, and if you achieve that bar you are admitted regardless of high school performance.

And THAT was a huge mistake.

agree and disagree, around the time of the 'singularity' in education in the id 90s, they also changed the SAT structure - significantly to account for 'culture'


used to be, as they say "when I was a kid...." your SAT score tracked with your HS performance. If a student was better'n average in 'college prep' (what we call stem today) then the SAT tracked with scores 1150-1200 and up. if not, then 1000 was a challenge. today it is quite easy to have a 1400 score and be functionally illiterate (functionally illiterate is not closely linked to he OP subject line)


Also, part of the singularity was to equalize college admissions. And this was done via the expansion of liberal arts. Most BAs, are just certificate programs. Its not the same. and here we are. sow->reap
 
Old 01-29-2022, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,863 posts, read 8,138,782 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I'm talking about the debate whether the SAT is a good indicator of college success.
The SAT is probably the single best predictor of college and life success. Your high school GPA is not a better predictor than the SAT. You sound like you're just being a contrarian. Why do you hate the SAT so much? Got a bad score?
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