Will Biden be blamed for debt exceeding $30 trillion? (Reagan, gasoline, independent)

[FordBronco1967]

Will he? No. Should he? Yes.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Winterbeard

Clinton had the largest budget surplus and debt pay down in history, but since then, it's been debt, debt, debt.

Republicans only care when Democrats are spending and Democrats only care when Republicans are spending.

Clinton never paid down debt, and he didn't really have a surplus as he SPENT the surplus




the problem is that while Clinton/Newt had a PROJECTED budget surplus..they spent it, and more...… a spent surplus is a deficit/debt


here is the 4 years that they claim had a surplus
Fiscal
Year........ YearEnding.... ..National Debt........ACTUAL Annual budget Deficit

FY1998..... 09/30/1998.... $5.526193 trillion...... $113.05 billion
FY1999..... 09/30/1999.... $5.656270 trillion...... $130.08 billion
FY2000..... 09/29/2000.... $5.674178 trillion...... $17.91 billion
FY2001..... 09/28/2001.... $5.877463 trillion...... $133.29 billion

source: US Treasury
https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current



the national debt rose EVERY YEAR of those PROJECTED surpluses...had their been REAL surpluses, the national debt would have gone down

sorry not a surplus
a budget is a projection.. an estimate




you know you estimated take home is 60k
you budget a 55k worth of spending/bills
you budget a surplus of 5k
then you end up spending 65k due to emergencies, etc
your 5k surplus just turned into a 5 k deficit


that is accounting 101




if Clinton/Newt actually has a surplus, then the debt would have gone down..the interest of the debt IS IN the budget




are you saying a budget WRITTEN IN ADVANCE is the gospel, and NOTHING is EVER spent/saved outside of that written estimate.... if so you need to go back to school

Clinton/newt never had any surpluses.....they had PROJECTED surpluses...but the country SPENT the surpluses...if you project a surplus, then spend more than that surplus... you have a deficit

budgets are best guesses...projections

ie you can say we EXPECT/PROJECT the revenue to be 2 trillion and EXPECT the spending to be 3 trillion...a 1 trillion PROJECTED deficit

or you can say we EXPECT/PROJECT the revenue to be 2 trillion and EXPECT the spending to be 2 trillion...a PROJECTED balanced budget

ie you can say we EXPECT/PROJECT the revenue to be 2.1 trillion and EXPECT the spending to be 1.9 trillion...a 200 billion PROJECTED surplus

and the end of the year all the pluses and minuses are counted.... you can have

ie you can say we EXPECT/PROJECT the revenue to be 2 trillion and the spending to be 3 trillion...a 1 trillion PROJECTED deficit...but revenue rose to 2.2 trillion and we only spent 2.8 trillion...still a deficit but instead of a 1 trillion deficit, now its a 600 billion deficit


you can project a surplus..and have emergencies show up (ie the Mississippi valley flooding...911... etc) and completely blow the surplus to where it becomes a deficit



sorry, but the PROJECTED surpluses of clinton/newt never happened...the debt never got paid, and the debt infact INCREASED


the simple fact is if there had been a surplus, then the debt would have gone down...it didn't


was the BUDGET balanced.....yes

was there a PROJECTED SURPLUS.....yes

was there an actual surplus , once all in's and out's were counted.....NO




so endeth the myth of the Clinton surplus

a spent projected surplus is not a surplus

[Winterbeard]

Originally Posted by FordBronco1967

Will he? No. Should he? Yes.

Will he? No. Should he? What? For the whole $30 trillion? No, only his portion.

[sholomar]

Originally Posted by andywire

The real question is, where do they keep finding more suckers to loan the fed gov money???

This is done through central bank quantitative easing. Central banks the world over act as bondbuyers of last resort, sucking up supply that the free market doesn't want and artificially suppressing interest rates downward. If they didn't do this the US would go into a depression immediately from free market interest rates that would easily shoot up into the upper single digits minimum.

We have had a managed economy since at least 2008. This website shows the balance sheets of the major central banks:

https://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf

This is modern monetary theory in a nutshell. Part of me is against it but part of me knows it's the only thing we can do at this point if done responsibly. The problem is during covid it was not done responsibly. It was quite excessive. To be done successfully this approach requires negative interest rates... where debt actually generates excess liquidity. That would ease the debt to GDP ratio over time without the need for debt monetization.

There are youtube videos such as "money as debt" that talked about the idea of interest free money direct from the treasury, bypassing the Federal Reserve. Conspiracy theorists talked about Kennedy being assassinated because of his "United States Notes" which bypassed the Federal Reserve. Many nations have fought to try to keep central banks out of their countries over the last few hundred years, including ours, according to these theorists.

https://www.nosue.org/banking/united...-reserve-note/

A zero interest rate QE strategy is basically a variation of that except the debt technically still exists as numbers on a computer screen. Modern monetary theory is likely to be inflationary, so plan accordingly. Debt held by the Federal Reserve is irrelevant... they will never require repayment.

[FordBronco1967]

Originally Posted by Winterbeard

Will he? No. Should he? What? For the whole $30 trillion? No, only his portion.

That's what the title of this tread said. "Will Biden be blamed for debt EXCEEDING $30 trillion", meaning his portion that has caused the total to exceed $30 trillion.

[Winterbeard]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

sorry, but the PROJECTED surpluses of clinton/newt never happened...the debt never got paid, and the debt infact INCREASED

https://clintonwhitehouse3.archives....rk/102899.html

The Largest Surplus in History:

The $123 billion surplus in 1999 is the largest dollar surplus in history, even after adjusting for inflation;
The surplus, expected to be about 1.4% of GDP, is the largest surplus as a share of the economy since 1951;
1999 is the second year in a row of surplus, marking the first back-to-back surpluses since 1956-57;
This is the first time in U.S. history that we've experienced seven years in a row of fiscal improvement.
The Largest Debt Reduction in History:

Over the last two years, America has paid down $140 billion in public debt, the largest debt pay-down ever;
The debt held by the public is $1.7 trillion lower than was projected when President Clinton took office;
As a result, in 1999 alone, interest payments on the debt were $91 billion lower than projected.

Find me a president since who paid as much public debt down.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Winterbeard

Clinton had the largest budget surplus and debt pay down in history, but since then, it's been debt, debt, debt.

Republicans only care when Democrats are spending and Democrats only care when Republicans are spending.

when Clinton took over the debt was 3.1t..when he left it was 5.87t..... the debt nearly doubled under Clinton.....


so what I said was accurate... trumpo nearly doubled the debt, so did Obama, so did Bush2, so did Clinton


Clinton nearly doubled the debt from 3.1t to 5.87t
WBush nearly doubled the debt from 5.87t to 10.6t
Obama doubled the debt from 10.6t to 21t
Trump added 8t to the debt
Biden is on his way to double the debt again

[Retroit]

By Republicans, yes. By Democrats, no.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Winterbeard

https://clintonwhitehouse3.archives....rk/102899.html



Find me a president since who paid as much public debt down.

but he didn't


1999 the DEBT INCREASED by 130b


now for 2000 the debt only increased by 17b...still an increase


and FY01 (Clintons last year) the debt INCREASED by 133b




so are you saying the Clinton Whitehouse press release is more accurate than the actual USTreasury??

[Winterbeard]

One way we could cut debt is by raising taxes. Republicans in favor? Another way is by cutting government funding. Democrats in favor?

That is the permanent impasse.

I say we should stop increasing the military budget year upon year (you'll notice USPS gets a lot of trash talk thrown at it that it fails to make a profit, still waiting for the military to turn a profit) and increase taxes on a progressive scale - but I would be voted in by no one because of both of those stances.

In conclusion, Americans would rather we keep piling on debt than make some uncomfortable choices.