Do you think no one should have millions/billions of dollars? (2015, banks)
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Millions maybe. A million bucks isn't as much money as it used to be. Just to buy a house in some regions costs that much. It's certainly A LOT of money for me but I'm on HUD so even like 100 thousand is being wealthy to me.
Billions seem excessive. If they have billions then they likely aren't doing much for their employees or consumers of their service/products and once you have that much money what do you do with it? It would be okay if it didn't severely impact the people on the bottom/closer to the bottom but it usually does because if they have all that money what is left for anyone else?
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Originally Posted by erieguy
They can always start their own business, better themselves, etc… Nobody is forcing folks to work for those they don’t want to. The key is planning accordingly.
Ah because starting your own business is something that anyone who needs/wants more can do. It costs nothing. Same with bettering themselves. Everyone has an easily marketable talent.
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Originally Posted by natalie469
If you are employed then you pay taxes. And very few get rich on their own. They need workers do make it happen. All I'm saying is to take care of them and give them what they deserve for making you rich.
Also many people who are now considered rich used to be lower class (Jim Carrey used to live out of his car for example).
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Originally Posted by albert648
A massive tax bill that is 5x what it should be propping up a massive welfare state bureaucracy that incinerates my hard-earned money after stealing it from me at gunpoint.
Yeah, I like the millionaires and billionaires better. And who cares if they have billions or even trillions? They earned it. At least the ones that made their fortunes in the private sector.
Some lower class people work and likely harder than some of those billionaires. I don't really like any class better. You have your bad apples everywhere but I feel like billions is an amount where you'd likely have to cut corners to get there. Don't get me wrong Amazon was a great idea. I have bought many products there but that doesn't mean Jeff Bezos is an ethical businessman.
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Originally Posted by erieguy
Bingo…the sense of entitlement on how folks think others should spend their money is amazing. Nobody is standing in front of anyone to start their own business and pay workers what they see fit.
Some of those people tell us how to spend our money. "If you ate Ramen noodles every day you'd be wealthy like me" Sure Jan because me eating at restaurants sometimes are why I've been struggling all these years.
Personally a lot of people are standing in front of me including myself.
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Originally Posted by Rocko20
Sounds like those workers should've created their own company and joined the rich, since it's so easy and all.
I don't recall anyone on here saying it was easy to create your own company.
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Originally Posted by Artisan10
Thd left's ideology is based on envy.
The property a person owns, as long as they acquired it legally, is nobody else's business.
I doubt it. Maybe for some...
I have been envious plenty but if my ideology was based on that then you might not find many people who had much of anything, particularly people I actually admire.
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Originally Posted by mco65
I get the risk involved but how do you police this. Tax the rich?
I think the greatness created by those people striving to be successful for outweighs the risks of one person having too much money. If you limit a persons ability to be successful, you limit their potential to improve mankind as a whole.
Look at how the Computers have changed the world, especially personal computers or PCs... Bill Gates has made an unbelievable fortune by improving how we use PCs.... imagine a world where success like this was stifled and entrepreneurs like Bill Gates were discouraged...
Too bad a lot of how we use PCs/the internet is useless now.
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Originally Posted by Blues4evr
We have a business and it is a lot of work, I know a few people who started a business who didn’t last a year or went bankrupt. It’s a lot of sacrifice, challenges, work.
Exactly and yet we're supposed to sit here and be okay with them having all the money while we get nothing just because we don't have the capability to do it.
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
Many start out like this. After all, nobody becomes wealthy by throwing away a lot of money. But, depending on how much wealth has accumulated, many people stray from that path, and that is OK. I used to be super cheap, pouring every extra dollar into investments.
Eventually, in my late 40's my mortality became very real to me, and I decided I would no longer be denying myself anything I truly wanted, for the remainder of my life, however long that is.
Because in the end, all you really have is the life you lived, and none of that money that you saved goes with you.
Too bad lack of money is often a barrier to what you truly want.
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Originally Posted by erasure
Correct.
This is one of the reasons why Americans ( in general) are one of the wealthiest people on Earth.
Not because they work harder than anyone else, but because their money grow while they sleep.
Literally.
With that being said, internally, it all depends in every case individually, how much income such investments bring - from modest to exuberant.
Right and who has time for all that? This life is finite..so you're supposed to wait until you're old and frail to have the resource to enjoy life but then you can't enjoy life because you're frail.
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Originally Posted by erasure
Not really.
You getting your education in STEM was not exactly "your choice."
Understanding math and science is a gift from above for example.
So not everyone has this kind of choice.
Most if not all choices I made in my life were all Hobson's choice so no more a choice than a child doing what their parents told them just so they wouldn't get the whip.
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
I agree, it is all about envy.
I don't assume an afterlife exists, making it even more important to enjoy your life while you can. You don't get a second chance.
I also don't find spending it on things to "flaunt" to be all that rewarding. Experiences are the most rewarding. Especially, family experiences. Family vacations in beautiful places. Front row tickets to concerts and broadway shows. Experiencing food from the world's greatest chefs. These are the things that make life exciting.
Also, I will spend money to make the environment in which I live, more beautiful. After all, that is where I spend most of my time, so it better be spent somewhere as pleasant as possible.
Me neither too bad experiences are the most expensive thing to purchase. It's no wonder some people buy things..they do it to fill the void of not being able to do what they really value.
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Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Economics is not a zero sum game.
One person having $millions does not stop anyone else from having just as much. Think of it like baking cookies. You can bake 100 cookies per day and in a short time, have thousands of cookies. Does your accumulation of cookies prevent anyone else from baking?
Think of human productivity, innovation and labor like flour and sugar. As long as you have the right ingredients, you can bake to your heart's content. Wealth is just like that. As long as people are out there "baking", the amount of wealth continues to grow. IT IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME.
As far as do I think other people should have more than me or not...uhm, I don't live my life coveting or feeling envious/jealous of what others have. If they aren't initiating force against me, then what do I care what anyone else does, has, thinks, etc?
Again millions is different than billions.
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
What exactly can we do about different abilities in humans?
If certain people have an innate ability to make billions of dollars, should we do anything about it?
You could start with making a clear pathway to be able to use their personal abilities to create the life they want for themselves.
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Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Depends on your goal?
Do you want freedom, liberty, progress, innovation and overall happiness with the standard of living? Well, if you do, then you want free markets and equal opportunity, which comes with a wild disparity in outcomes given the wild disparity between 6.5 billion individual humans.
If you care more about everyone being relatively the same in outcome, then you have to squash freedom and liberty, limit progress, stifle innovation and generally reduce everyone's standard of living until everyone is equally miserable.
So you tell me...which would you prefer? Is Jeff Bezo's wealth so hurtful to you that you think we should reorder society itself, make everyone miserable and erase notions like freedom, liberty, free markets, etc in order for nobody like Bezos to make you sad that they are better off than you?
You cannot have both equality and equity. They represent a perfect inverse proportionality. As one goes up, the other simply must come down.
Ah so there's that BS I was waiting for: the tripe about equal opportunity not meaning equal outcome. That would be all well and fine if working hard meant success. In a world where entry level is no longer entry level I don't know how you could argue that everyone has equal opportunity especially for those who are outcasts, meaning likely neurodiverse.
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Originally Posted by Witchz
So lets really look at what the Billionaires of the US make-
this is their personal wealth not what their companies are worth.
Elon Musk - 256.1 Billion (predicted to be 1 Trillion by Space X within year)
Jeff Bezos - 187.1 Billion
Gates - 132.6 Billion
Buffet- 116.5 Billion
Zuckerberg- 82.8 Billion
Now lets realize what that amount of money looks like- 1 Billion = 1,000 Million
These people have so much money that they have more money than the GDP of over 100 countries. Their wealth increased majorly during the pandemic - amazingly. What can anyone person do with that amount of money that Musk and Bezos have really? Can you even imagine if they just gave a small portion of their fortunes to the less fortunate in this Country what they could change? How about Bezos just paying his overworked employees a decent wage ? I mean where does it stop with these guys ? How much will they amass and what do you think they will do with it ?
Right that's what I'm saying. How do you need all that money? And by need I mean you could fulfill every want you have many times. I mean look at Jeff Bezos he has so much money that he went into space. Did he truly want to go into space? Or was he bored he thought enough of earth I've done there all is to do let's go into space and do what many men have already done.
Yet you're telling me you can't spare much on the lower class? Unbelievable.
I could not imagine having that much money. Personally give me a few million and I'm likely set for life but a billion..nah I'd have to give a lot of that away. I know everybody is different but I can't even picture how ANYONE would not be set even recreationally and these guys have hundreds of billions.
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Originally Posted by DorianRo
Ive heard before that everyone's brain triggers a left or right hemisphere dominant response so you're either gifted in languare/arts/creative side or the STEM side of the brain and generally you know what you're gifted in when you're very young.
If everyone was capable of aptitude of the STEMs everyone would be a Doctor, Mathmetician, engineer
Also aside from that that that basically says if you're one of those people who are abnormally disadvantaged in that capacity, so what does that mean? You don't deserve to have as much because you can't get there?
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Originally Posted by DorianRo
What I will never understand is why people defend the insanely rich.
No idea. I only defend those who deserve to be defended because of the way they live their life. They seem to think because people like Jeff Bezos had a great idea he's a great person who deserves all his wealth over hard working people.
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Originally Posted by DorianRo
Ummm.. Why shouild I have to move? I'm not the corrupt, unscrupulous scumbag screwing everyone over. Why don't they move?
I can't imagine moving to another country just to benefit financially. I have a hard enough time moving to another state when I actually want to for other reasons, imagine living a country you have no desire to even really visit let alone live.
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Originally Posted by DorianRo
This isn't capitalism we live in. This is crony capitalism.. An alternative, whatever improves the lives of all socioeconomic classes those outside the few elite.. If its socialism/communism so be it. Sitting around and defending someone that makes 10 mil a year and taking a paycut so they can make 20 mil year doesn't sound like much progress as a nation except making the elites wallets fatter
Capitalism worked better in the 90s. The unfortunate thing was I was still a kid when it did so I had no power to take advantage of it..maybe they should have let kids work for their money or work harder to encourage kids to take a kid friendly money making opportunity (not just crap like being a paperboy or something)
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Originally Posted by DorianRo
Im sure theytr are. There is probably bigfoot too. But its rare you'll ever spot one. Most people that make it out big in America either: A. Luck out, right place right time born with a rare talent B. Befriends someone in power. Which is also luck
Depressing how much luck factors into financial success. I guess if you're willing to throw all morality out the window then you can make it but that is innate like if I lied to just get a tolerable job I wouldn't be able to get away with it. You have to be good at being immoral, if you have any ounce of guilt in you you might not be able to tell even a white lie.
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Originally Posted by odinloki1
So if people aren’t working at all times they deserve to struggle?
You are trying to make an argument that hard work equals success and there is a direct causation.
Since we as a country work more hours, have less vacation than many other countries our social mobility should be higher right. We also have lower taxes than many countries that have stronger social safety nets.
No one is stopping a burger flipper from quitting their job to study medicine or engineering.
If they don’t have the IQ, work ethic, ambition, or desire to do it, that’s on them, not society.
The only guarantees in this world are death and taxes.
The problem with this argument is that we can’t be a nation with 200M CEO’s, doctors, engineers and no low level laborers.
Ultimately, someone has to do the low waged work.
The issue is the income disparity between the classes, and the policies enacted that only widen the gap.
Not everyone was born into wealthy homes. Can’t promise wealth, but working hard and able to support your family is a success too. My dad was a construction worker and always provided for his family, one of the reasons I have such a soft spot for blue collar workers.
50-60 years ago, this was a possibility but much harder to do today.
Even white collar workers find it hard to afford starter homes in much of the nation. It’s hard to compete with cash buyers such as Blackrock.
The system, crony capitalism of whatever you want to term it, is not working for the majority of Americans.
The fact that this isn’t unique to the US tells us that the system is fundamentally flawed.
Not only that. The said burger flipper can also borrow money at 0 or near 0 interest rate like every rich person. They can start their own business, and if they fail, they can declare bankruptcy taking advantage of Biden's bankruptcy law. LOL
Why don't they do that?
Lol, what bank is loaning enough money to a burger flipper to start a business? Would you?
Mr loan officer, I’ve been flipping burgers for a year now and I’m the best burger flipper in town. I make $7.25/hour and don’t have anything saved or own anything of worth that could be used as collateral but I’d like a $100k loan at 0% interest to start my own McDonald’s competitor down the street.
One thing the left always complains about are the people that have millions, or billions of dollars regardless of how good they are and how much they produce for others. Do you think no matter how hard a person genuinely works and no matter how much money they invest creating jobs it's just wrong for any one person to have so much and should be distributed equally to everyone?
Who do you trust to redistribute the wealth? This is why these schemes never work out well - corruption and greed always run rampant and everyone who touches the wealth gets sticky fingers. So then you still have wealth inequality, but the new rich have done no good to justify their reward. Who do you want to reward? the rich who earned it, or the greedy bureaucrats who control it under the socialist system?
Lol, what bank is loaning enough money to a burger flipper to start a business? Would you?
Mr loan officer, I’ve been flipping burgers for a year now and I’m the best burger flipper in town. I make $7.25/hour and don’t have anything saved or own anything of worth that could be used as collateral but I’d like a $100k loan at 0% interest to start my own McDonald’s competitor down the street.
Somebody lended money to a homeless person and made a ton of money. That person was Steve Jobs.
Banks and other investors lend money to small businesses all the time. The said burger flipper needs to come up with a viable business plan and a guarantor.
Who do you trust to redistribute the wealth? This is why these schemes never work out well - corruption and greed always run rampant and everyone who touches the wealth gets sticky fingers. So then you still have wealth inequality, but the new rich have done no good to justify their reward. Who do you want to reward? the rich who earned it, or the greedy bureaucrats who control it under the socialist system?
The democrats, aka American Communist Party, of course.
"In either case, fund managers can invest their own money in the funds, and they charge fees to outside investors. One of those fees is a percentage of a fund’s earnings. That’s known as “carried interest,” and it’s taxed as a capital gain under IRS rules.
The top capital gains rate — for income above $413,200 for individuals — is 20 percent. Plus, there’s a 3.8 percent Medicare surcharge tax on investment income for those earning more than $200,000. That would make a wealthy investment fund manager’s tax rate about 23.8 percent.
It actually could be lower or higher than that, depending on the amount of carried interest and also the amount of standard wage compensation that fund managers typically receive. They also normally get a share of an asset management fee that’s taxed as ordinary income. But there is no accepted median pay for fund managers, and Steven M. Rosenthal, a senior fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and an expert on the carried interest rules, advised us to use the 23.8 percent rate for our purposes."
Let's say you're an "average" Fortune 500 CEO "making" $12MM a year. But that's not $12MM cash - hey, nobody "needs" $12MM in cash. Instead, you get just a measly $4MM in cash (taxes are a ***** - you're not getting but about $2.5MM of that). The other $8MM is in stock options at today's price. Let's say it's a $100 stock, you were "paid" a non-cash event of the ability to buy 80,000 shares at $10. Two years later, the stock is now $300. So, you exercise your option, shell out $8MM and then sell for $24MM. You don't pay 35% income tax on that $16MM gain, you pay 20% cap gains tax.
Lol, what bank is loaning enough money to a burger flipper to start a business? Would you?
Mr loan officer, I’ve been flipping burgers for a year now and I’m the best burger flipper in town. I make $7.25/hour and don’t have anything saved or own anything of worth that could be used as collateral but I’d like a $100k loan at 0% interest to start my own McDonald’s competitor down the street.
It's not even just about the money that's the worst part. What is the burger flipper starting? You say to compete with McDonald's and in my eyes sure anything's better than McDonald's but is it better than other places that sell burgers?
Substitute burger flipper with cashier and that's me trying to start my own business just because all the bootstrappers told me. Like my mom makes some of the best burgers but we can't just sell burgers. What else would we sell? This is just one conundrum. There are so many details you have to work out like I said in my long winded post.
Yeah I hate when people say just start your own business like it's the easiest thing in the world. If I were a loan officer, I'd respectfully say okay what is your plan and if you say um...just to sell burgers, I'm going to have a hard time trusting your business is worth the loan. Even some really great businesses fail particularly so in these economic times. I found out not too long ago the place I loved the most for fried chicken closed down and they had no real competitors. No one else in the area had homemade fried chicken like that (except a buffet) and not much had the same quality of sides they sold with the chicken.
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