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Old 04-20-2022, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,860,222 times
Reputation: 2967

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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
Maybe he was under the influence of alcohol.
Would it matter one way or another?

 
Old 04-20-2022, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Southwest
2,596 posts, read 2,294,047 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
Maybe he was under the influence of alcohol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
Would it matter one way or another?
Quite possibly. They're very different substances.
 
Old 04-20-2022, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,860,222 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
Quite possibly. They're very different substances.
One should not speak publicly under influence... It's one thing to drink some vodka with friends and go to bed, it's another to do the same and then go to a business meeting or make a speech that will be seen by the whole world. That's all.

Even Yeltsin drunk after all official business was completed, not that anyone is of any good opinion of him.
 
Old 04-21-2022, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Outside US
3,681 posts, read 2,384,922 times
Reputation: 5166
Gonzalo Lira has been kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Ukranian SPU.

If you have not heard already.
 
Old 04-21-2022, 03:29 AM
 
51,585 posts, read 25,595,584 times
Reputation: 37787
The Battle for Donbas is underway, and likely to be the pivotal battle of the Russian invasion.

Ukrainians are putting up a damn decent fight. Weapons and supplies continue to arrive.

Ukrainian missiles sunk a Russian warship. Russia said it accidentally caught on fire. Whatever. Other Russian ships have pulled back from shore.

Though there is constant reports of agreed upon humanitarian evacuation corridors, seems these rarely turn out to be safe from Russian shelling.

Putin said he's sent a peace proposal to Zelensky. Zelensky said he hasn't seen it.

Hard to imagine the Ukrainians agreeing to any Putin proposal. Not after Bucha.
 
Old 04-21-2022, 03:52 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 3,983,932 times
Reputation: 3468
Ukrainian FM, Kuleba sharply criticized another fellow eastern european country - bulgaria by saying "how can you call killers, your brothers" about the excuse that bulgaria and russia are 'brothers'. He is right, many countries aren't doing enough. Poverty here is not excuse and I personally want to do more to help.
 
Old 04-21-2022, 05:11 AM
 
3,195 posts, read 1,579,745 times
Reputation: 2850
Be careful of what you say on the phone in Russia…

From the Wall Street Journal

Quote:
https://archive.ph/boOWS

He Worked for Moscow’s Police for Nearly 20 Years. Then He Spoke Up About the Ukraine War.

Sergei Klokov, one of many Russian-Ukrainians, now faces 10 years in prison

It was week three of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and Sergei Klokov, a driver at Moscow’s police headquarters, was increasingly uneasy with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war and the way it was being portrayed in the country’s state media. He telephoned a former colleague.

“We think we are fighting fascism, but there isn’t fascism there. There isn’t,” Mr. Klokov, who is Russian-Ukrainian, told his friend. Concerned that Russian soldiers and Ukrainian civilians were dying for no reason, he implored, “Get the information out to people.”

What Mr. Klokov didn’t know was that his phone was tapped by Russian authorities.

The March 9 call was the first of three he placed to friends that day that investigators later cited in a criminal complaint against him, one of the first known cases under a new Russian law that prohibits spreading information on the war that goes against the Kremlin line.

Roughly a week after those phone calls, the 37-year-old father of two was arrested and locked up in the building where he worked, and where his wife, currently on maternity leave, also has a job as a security guard. He now faces up to 10 years in prison if convicted.

Last edited by Ken_N; 04-21-2022 at 05:30 AM..
 
Old 04-21-2022, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Arizona
12,923 posts, read 7,101,576 times
Reputation: 9905
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Says who?

Ukrainian propaganda machine?

Watch those "Russian tanks" here, being repaired in DNR -




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBdtZRmB0n4&t=12s

You underestimate Donbass and its people.



Again - too much propaganda, too little knowledge on your part.

That "ethnic cleansing" of Georgians by Abkhasians had nothing to do with Russians.

Or rather the less Russians control the areas, ( which was the case starting from the 90ies,) the more those long-simmering ethnic conflicts erupt.
Why do you keep linking a 7 year old video?
 
Old 04-21-2022, 08:26 AM
 
8,480 posts, read 3,295,361 times
Reputation: 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_N View Post
Be careful of what you say on the phone in Russia…

He Worked for Moscow’s Police for Nearly 20 Years. Then He Spoke Up About the Ukraine War.

Sergei Klokov, one of many Russian-Ukrainians, now faces 10 years in prison

It was week three of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and Sergei Klokov, a driver at Moscow’s police headquarters, was increasingly uneasy with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war and the way it was being portrayed in the country’s state media. He telephoned a former colleague.

“We think we are fighting fascism, but there isn’t fascism there. There isn’t,” Mr. Klokov, who is Russian-Ukrainian, told his friend. Concerned that Russian soldiers and Ukrainian civilians were dying for no reason, he implored, “Get the information out to people.”

What Mr. Klokov didn’t know was that his phone was tapped by Russian authorities.

From the Wall Street Journal
Such a bizarre war, all this death and destruction for no 'good' reasons. Not that wars necessarily ever start for "good" reasons. The Putin-distributed 'excuses' made so little sense that the invasion surprised the Russian establishment outside his innermost circle, even retired generals. The funny part is Putin never wanted the Donbas, not by itself. Being stuck with a portion of it actually a loss-loss for him. To begin, the local economy now devastated making it a costly possession to support. More reasons to come.

Putin couldn't 'return' it for that becomes a Russian 'defeat.' Ukraine couldn't send its army in for the same reason, Putin then forced to 'defend' it. For years the two "sides" faced each other across the ceasefire line, several times a month throwing some shells at the others' defenses or running sorties.

Putin isn't a psychopath. He'd have preferred to control Ukraine - the objective - like he does Belarus using Russian-puppets with Ukraine a dutiful part of the Russian triad. Which then aids in other geopolitical objectives. The pesky May 2014 DPR/LDR referendum, which he did withdraw support from once it became clear no widespread support for Russian domination even by Russian-speakers in the eastern half existed in 2014 was inconvenient.

Putin could have militarily taken more Ukrainian territory in 2014 by sending in 'the entire Russian army' for the Ukrainian armed forces were then weak. That would, however, have left him stuck with an unhappy populace to govern which certainly will be the issue now, in spades.

-----
This time around he's fully prepared which is where the 'de-Nazification' program comes in. Not to 'de-Nazifiy' Ukraine minds for like the Moscow policeman says that is nonsense. Ukraine is not fascist. Putin does, however, need re-education to 'pro-Russify' those minds, occupying territory. The old Soviet model. Prepared now, except once again pesky Ukrainians have not cooperated this time by being prepared to fight back. That and the Russia war effort fell apart meaning Kyiv which he absolutely needed stood.

-----
BACK TO 2014:

Crimea he wanted from the first; that Putin annexed. With Crimea and now a major chunk of the Donbas severed from Ukraine, a problem. Stuck with the DPR/LPR, Putin no longer has enough pro-Russian voters to potentially control the Ukrainian central government. He demands Ukraine to continue to allow the DPR/LPR to vote in national elections. Not surprisingly Ukraine says: no way. Go home, give us back Donbas, then that territory can be fully reunified into Ukraine and once again vote.

It doesn't help that Russian-speaking Ukrainians and most local oligarchs / power elites having seen the mess of the Separatist republics since 2014 now really want no part of Russia. PBS just this morning mentioned polling showing this for people living within the government controlled portions of the Donbass, understandable given the large number who fled into government zone from the DPR/ LPR.

That the Ukrainian army had 8 years of 'practice-fighting' for this invasion also doesn't help the Russian war effort. This is a frigging disaster, for about everyone.
 
Old 04-21-2022, 09:07 AM
 
8,480 posts, read 3,295,361 times
Reputation: 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryvete View Post
Okay, to start off, Jacques Baud has had extensive dealings in a number of places in addition to the Warsaw Pact countries, many of which in Africa. We shouldn't pretend that Baud doesn't have the background and experience that's invaluable for analysing matters of this nature given his past involvement with things like overseeing refugees in the Congo and Rwanda during their respective wars back in the 1990s.

Secondly, your document ascribes societal conditions to the Donbass implying that Russia generated the anti-government unrest there. The dissension was there from the beginning in matters pertaining to autonomy for the eastern oblasts versus the unitarian model with Kyiv at the helm, closer ties to the Eurasian CIS, and discrimination against the Russian speaking peoples which had been going for decades prior to 2014 (look up the Narodne slovo describing them as a 'fifth column' for the country back in 2005). While I have no doubt Russia has had its own conspiratorial threads weaved into the situation, these grievances date back all the way to 1990s when Russia was retracting in on itself after the fall of the Soviet Union. The very government that came into power in 2014 was brought about through the machinations of Victoria Nuland and the USA. In that respect I'd be very concerned too with a pawn of the United States positioned so close to your borders.

NATO was expanded in spite of western leaders' assurances that it wouldn't. You can argue about the territorial sovereignty of eastern European countries and how they have a right to decide their own security but it reflects poorly on western leadership when they decide to indulge in expanding the umbrella despite making vows to the contrary. Now the biomedical labs, this request for exclusively Russian DNA, and alleged studies of pathogen carrying migratory birds heading west to east, yeah, no, those types of crooked dealings are unsupportable.

Whatever Russia's ambitions are for Ukraine, and they do exist, entrusting even just the fates of the people in the Donbass and Crimea to a central government compromised by ultranationalists, that's like entrusting the fox to guard the hen house.
Not always reading every page, by chance happened to see this. Leaving now ... a response later.
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