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That's what the Ukrainian marauders who tormented Donbass Russians for 8 years did, but posters on this thread don't seem to be troubled and they sure don't call them cowards. This considering the weaponry used on the Donbass Russian's wasn't restricted to rifles.
Why didn't Russia demand the UN investigate 8 years ago?
Why didn't Russia demand the UN investigate 8 years ago?
Russia requested Ukraine repeatedly for the killing to stop. Russia's request was ignored.
Look, Kell490 - I don't deny that in war, horrifying things happen, and that despite the toughest and strictest discipline, awful things may and tragically do happen. I do not judge you for putting up that video and I don't deny that in real life, you're almost certainly a fine human being with a conscience and with a sturdy sense of right and wrong.
Perhaps I'm simply being wishful here, but I would like to believe that most of us on C-D, however punchy or sarcastic we may be to each other when discussing these issues, are not bad people.
However, if the killing of unarmed civilians is to be condemned, it is all too ironic and all too inconsistent that many posters on this thread (not you) have denounced Russia while utterly ignoring the hell unleashed upon Donbass Russians by Ukrainian fighters. Some deny it.
If civilians are not to be shot by armed soldiers, then I would hope that we all agree that the nationality of the civilian is immaterial; it's wrong regardless of who shoots and of the nationality of the civilian being killed.
Finally, I believe that when this special military operation is over, a lot of evidence pointing to human rights abuses of civilians and captured Russian POWs by Ukrainians will emerge. I want to see what people in the mainstream media and on this forum say.
However, with some posters (again, not you) having veritably cheered for Russia's economic ruin and admitting they want Russian citizens to suffer for what their government is doing, I don't expect much in the way of compassion or outrage.
God bless you Rand Paul for standing up for us, the citizens and taxpayers of this nation. Washington makes me sick, they always put us last. And thank you Tucker Carlson for your voice. We’re not alone, and the voices on the street are starting to think the same as me, why $40 billion to Ukraine, why not use that on our homeless, or our border. I expected this from today’s democrats, but it’s time for McConnell to go, the most important thing for him in the world should be the interests of the people of Kentucky and this country.
God bless you Rand Paul for standing up for us, the citizens and taxpayers of this nation. Washington makes me sick, they always put us last. And thank you Tucker Carlson for your voice. We’re not alone, and the voices on the street are starting to think the same as me, why $40 billion to Ukraine, why not use that on our homeless, or our border. I expected this from today’s democrats, but it’s time for McConnell to go, the most important thing for him in the world should be the interests of the people of Kentucky and this country.
40 billion is pretty insignificant number considering US yearly spending budget is around 4.8 trillion. Senate will easily pass the bill to help Ukraine in the next 3-4 days and the only thing Rand Paul doing is acting like a child.
Russia requested Ukraine repeatedly for the killing to stop. Russia's request was ignored.
Look, Kell490 - I don't deny that in war, horrifying things happen, and that despite the toughest and strictest discipline, awful things may and tragically do happen. I do not judge you for putting up that video and I don't deny that in real life, you're almost certainly a fine human being with a conscience and with a sturdy sense of right and wrong.
Perhaps I'm simply being wishful here, but I would like to believe that most of us on C-D, however punchy or sarcastic we may be to each other when discussing these issues, are not bad people.
However, if the killing of unarmed civilians is to be condemned, it is all too ironic and all too inconsistent that many posters on this thread (not you) have denounced Russia while utterly ignoring the hell unleashed upon Donbass Russians by Ukrainian fighters. Some deny it.
If civilians are not to be shot by armed soldiers, then I would hope that we all agree that the nationality of the civilian is immaterial; it's wrong regardless of who shoots and of the nationality of the civilian being killed.
Finally, I believe that when this special military operation is over, a lot of evidence pointing to human rights abuses of civilians and captured Russian POWs by Ukrainians will emerge. I want to see what people in the mainstream media and on this forum say.
However, with some posters (again, not you) having veritably cheered for Russia's economic ruin and admitting they want Russian citizens to suffer for what their government is doing, I don't expect much in the way of compassion or outrage.
Like I said before Putin could have had a 3rd party (UN) verify 8 years ago they didn't why because they didn't want a 3rd party there to see what was happening. Putin declared war on the free press in Russia as well as blocking several social media websites. You can continue to push Putin's Propaganda the world doesn't agree and Russian people will suffer because of Putin.
Russia requested Ukraine repeatedly for the killing to stop. Russia's request was ignored.
.
The way to deal with that is to lodge a grievance with the UN, propose a resolution to sanction Ukraine & get enough signatures for it to pass, demand an investigation, etc. etc. IOW, work within the structure of international law and international institutions. The way to deal with it is NOT to 1. occupy the territory in dispute and create a separatist state, and further,
2. Invade the offending county and try to steamroll it into submission while trying to replace the government with one's own agents.
By the time Russia occupied the Donbas, it was too late to go to the UN, of course. No one would back them at that point. They should have gone to the UN when they found out about the atrocities.
They've been booted out of the UN Human Rights Council as a result of this war.
President Yakunovych won the election fair and square. - this is fact.
Elements who held the Ukrainian constitution and the democratic process in contempt didn't like that and got violent. - this is fact.
The Ukrainian legislature's vote to oust him after he was already outside Ukraine fell short of the constitutionally mandated majority. - this is fact.
Not only do you lack the knowledge required to discuss this issue intelligently, you make up things as you go along, you refute nothing you dislike and simply call it "opinions," and your base argument (Putin = Hitler) ignores the history of Russia in the 20th Century and Putin's own family.
You can write back and say Yakunovych was a puppet, but being friendly to Russia doesn't make a leader a puppet. You call him a puppet because it is emotionally comforting to you and because, by having refused to study the history, you are unaware of the facts and think that a simple and easy use of an epithet works.
Unfortunately for those who hold views like yours.... it doesn't.
Yakunovych won the election. It is a fact that many dispute whether it was "fair and square." So your fact is opinion.
Elements who held Yakunovych in contempt overthrew him. The rest of your sentence is propaganda drivel. Barely even rates opinion.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26304842 "...On Thursday, the bloodiest day of recent unrest, at least 21 protesters and one policeman died...." Some violence, but most seemed to be by Yakunovych's administration. "...The vote to "remove Viktor Yanukovych from the post of president of Ukraine" was passed by 328 MPs.
Such ballots, passed by what is called constitutional majority, are binding and enter into force with immediate effect, the BBC's Ukraine analyst Olexiy Solohubenko reports...."
So rather than fact, you just put out that the vote was unconstitutional with nothing to support your assertion. BBC called it constitutional. He had already abandoned his post and ran to Papa Putin. So according to BBC, you claim is flat out false.
I'm quite aware of the history. Enough to call you out for just putting out Russian propaganda. And apologizing for Putin's criminal acts. That seems to get you nervous, calling me ignorant because I don't let your propaganda go unchallenged.
The way to deal with that is to lodge a grievance with the UN, propose a resolution to sanction Ukraine & get enough signatures for it to pass, demand an investigation, etc. etc. IOW, work within the structure of international law and international institutions. The way to deal with it is NOT to 1. occupy the territory in dispute and create a separatist state, and further,
2. Invade the offending county and try to steamroll it into submission while trying to replace the government with one's own agents.
By the time Russia occupied the Donbas, it was too late to go to the UN, of course. No one would back them at that point. They should have gone to the UN when they found out about the atrocities.
They've been booted out of the UN Human Rights Council as a result of this war.
And Russia didn't do that, because, as anyone honest who has been following this knows, there were violations on both sides of the line. Ukrainians bombed areas held by the Russian army and their mercenaries and the Russians and their mercenaries bombed areas Ukraine held. And the casualties in the last few years were small compared to 2014 and nothing compared to 2022.
Again, there are no links talking about casualties on either side since the 2014 hostilities.
"...From 1 to 31 December 2021, Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) recorded six civilian casualties: one killed (a woman) and five injured (all men). One man was injured by light weapons fire in territory controlled by the self-proclaimed ‘Donetsk people’s republic’, one man was injured by an anti-personnel mine in Government-controlled part of Donetsk region, one woman was killed and two men were injured as a result of ERW handling in Government-controlled part of Donetsk region, and one man was injured as a result of ERW handling in territory controlled by the self-proclaimed ‘Luhansk people’s republic’.
November 2021
From 1 to 30 November 2021, OHCHR recorded four civilian casualties (all injured): two men and two women. All of them were caused by active hostilities (shelling and SALW fire): one in territory controlled by the self-proclaimed ‘Donetsk people’s republic’, one in territory controlled by the self-proclaimed ‘Luhansk people’s republic’, one in Government-controlled part of Donetsk region, and one in Government-controlled part of Luhansk region....
Total civilian casualties in 2021
The total number of civilian casualties recorded by OHCHR in 2021 has totaled 110: 25 killed (16 men, two women, three boys, one girl and three adults whose sex is not yet known) and 85 injured (56 men, 21 women, six boys and two girls), a 26.2 per cent decrease compared with 2020 (149: 26 killed and 123 injured), and the lowest annual civilian casualties for the entire conflict period...."
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