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This picture of a humanitarian Russia probably means you would not accept as true reports Russia attempted to sell its stolen Ukrainian grain to Egypt then to Lebanon and only dumped it in Syria when it couldn't find purchasers willing to buy stolen goods? Even the name of the wheat-laden Russian freighter heading towards Cairo was made public.
Right now its offering to sell stolen energy from the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant to apparently the only likely customer - Ukraine. Ukraine says the Russian controllers don't have the expertise for needed alternations to direct it into Russia or the Crimea. Then we have the geo-located Ukrainian tractors taken from Russian-controlled zones that ended up in Chechnya.
I don't believe that Russia offers anything "humanitarian" at this point.
Don't they offer this grain for the hard cold cash?
In the same manner as the US is not supplying the weapons to Ukraine with any "humanitarian" purpose in mind, and want the grain in return.
Why the surprise ... "Well, what do you know?" Per my bold of your text, did not some leave one night ... others later? At one point Kyiv and the Kremlin appeared to have identical numbers. The larger point is that the ICRC was - apparently per an agreement or perhaps a condition of surrender - allowed to register each person. Its statement about the registration stated:
Who is surprised?
It only shows that this was a bigger setback to Kiev than thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
Ukrainians are investigating the one video, although admittedly not very hurriedly. Perhaps the announcement is only a nod to western supporters.
Tell me when the Ukrainian authorities punish their fighters in those videos. Even Imperial Japan arrested and put to death soldiers who, on their own initiative, kidnapped Dutch women who were in a prison camp in Japanese-occupied Indonesia during the Pacific War and put them into brothels against their will. Of all 20th Century governments, Imperial Japan did not agree and sent a warning to its officers in Indonesia upon learning of this. Some of the Japanese troops who kidnapped those Dutch women (who were promptly released) were executed by the Japanese themselves.
For the sake of posters on this thread, I strongly hope you do provide evidence later on that this investigation you mentioned results in anything remotely resembling harsh punishment. If even Imperial Japan in at least one instance acted correctly and punished its own troops for kidnapping and raping Dutch POWs, Ukraine shouldn't be unable to do at least as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
Russia has no such direct constraint on its actions, although it appears at times to realize there is such a thing as world opinion.
As the videos Erasure show, Russian troops don't need any such constraint - direct or indirect, and you're not defining what constraint means - given it has treated Ukrainian POWs far better than Russian POWs have been treated by Ukrainian troops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
Ukraine was ravaged 80 years ago by the inhumane, with wrongs by all parties to the conflict (including the then USSR).
80 years ago, blacks were being lynched.
80 years ago, Koreans were being badly treated by Japanese police in Korea.
Your point is?
Should I feel sorry for 2022 Ukraine for what 1942 Ukraine underwent? Do those events somehow by default make Ukraine the "good guy" here?
Do you feel bad or sorry for Jews, gypsies, and Russians who were persecuted and even murdered by Ukrainian collaborators with the Nazis during the 1940s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
it is Ukraine that once again is being destroyed as we speak, with many thousands of dead Ukrainian non-combatants that would otherwise be alive.
No, you are incorrect. The Russian special military operation has from day 1 attempted to the maximum possible extent to avoid harming civilians and destroying nonmilitary structures. If any country has destroyed another, it's the U.S. which largely destroyed Iraq in 2003, as per Bush 43's gaffe today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
Loss of country and home and loved ones is tough. Not all react 'well.' Ukraine is asking for Russia to be declared a terrorist county. That is, of course, a non-starter ploy, but no doubt it does reflect how many think and what they feel about the invasion.
Western Ukraine is largely unscathed, because the Russians aren't interested in that area as it is ethnically, culturally, and linguistically majority Ukrainian. Your claim Ukraine is being destroyed is factually incorrect.
Terrorism is the use of violence against noncombatants (civilian populations) to accomplish political objectives. This makes the Ukrainian marauders who tormented Donbass Russians for 8 years the very terrorists the Ukrainians want Russia to be declared. But no matter - not even the Department of State will classify Russia as a terrorist state. If it delisted North Korea, it won't add Russia to the said list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
Russians have mothers safe at home; many Ukrainians worry they might be shelled the next day.
Not the mothers of Russian POWs who were summarily shot in the leg after they had already been apprehended, disarmed, and had their hands tied behind their backs.
I wish you would extend your concern for Ukrainian civilians for the Donbass Russians who WERE shelled on many days since 2014.
That is nonsense. Ukrainians and many others are using mines to attack innocent people.
lol what are they doing? throwing them? otherwise pure nonsense indeed. Not even the russians are accusing them of this and boy they make some doozers.
None of you have given a specific on how those rights were infringed.
And you ignore the question about justification.
But you knew exactly what I was saying. You are just spouting propaganda.
If you don't know the facts, you will not gain anything by calling anybody whose views you dislike "propaganda." A much better use of your time would be to become acquainted with what has transpired sine 2014 rather than saying another poster hasn't provided links when he provided not one but two.
Per my bold of your text ... since when ... surely you don't mean consistently since 2014? The Moon of Alabama blog was cited and discussed in detail earlier in this thread. It takes 'real sources' then extracts distorted content to support its so-called analysis. The OSCE report dated Feb. 19 (that's cited by Moon) documented:
This is what western analysts had to say about the increase in shelling right before the invasion:
The article is pretty interesting for it describes the views of several observers wondering what the heck is Russia up to? The one who was right on: ISW that is mentioned so often on this thread.
Russian troops crossed into the separatist zone on February 21st then into government-controlled Ukraine on February 24th.
I find it interesting that the OSCE even admitted to the increased attacks since it is a rogue organization. The Russian side has found documents in former OSCE posts proving that the organization helped Ukraine by forwarding their cam footage to Kiev, sending reports only to the Kiev side, etc. The Russians have already arrested OSCE employees for that.
What separatist zones? The two republics have been independent since 2014. Whether or not Ukraine or anyone else recognizes them is irrelevant. There are various independent states which are not recognized.
Sorry, VOA news is a propaganda outlet. That article is absurd, which is the result of its total one-sided contributors, including ominous experts and independent observers, but no proof of what they claim, not even their names.
Metadata are interesting, but often misleading. They can be deliberately manipulated in order to create a narrative. For IT nerds that is a piece of cake. The Maxar satellite company also manipulated their Bucha images, by predating them about two weaks.
This picture of a humanitarian Russia probably means you would not accept as true reports Russia attempted to sell its stolen Ukrainian grain to Egypt then to Lebanon and only dumped it in Syria when it couldn't find purchasers willing to buy stolen goods? Even the name of the wheat-laden Russian freighter heading towards Cairo was made public.
Right now its offering to sell stolen energy from the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant to apparently the only likely customer - Ukraine. Ukraine says the Russian controllers don't have the expertise for needed alternations to direct it into Russia or the Crimea. Then we have the geo-located Ukrainian tractors taken from Russian-controlled zones that ended up in Chechnya.
Independent sources, please, not referring to ominous "reports".
The Zaporizhzhia power plant is so far south, it might already be within the liberated areas held by Russia now.
Wasn't that the place which they accused Russia of attacking, while the truth turned out very different?
Russians certainly have the expertise to deal with any Ukrainian power plant.
Found this on a reliable German site run, translated by Google:
Quote:
"Russian attack on a nuclear power plant? The background
On Friday, the media overflowed with reports that Russia had attacked a nuclear power plant and it was going to burn. What really happened.
That Russia allegedly attacked Ukraine's nuclear power in Zaporizhia was a very remarkable piece of news. The reason is that Russian paratroopers took control of the power plant as early as February 28 and have been securing and guarding it ever since. When I heard in the German media that Russia had fired on the power plant, the Russians must have shot at themselves. Is that credible?
Instead, Russia reports that Ukrainian saboteurs tried to get to the power plant site. This led to hostilities. By the way, it was not the power plant that burned, but a training center on the site 500 meters away from the power plant.
Russian television has published a report on the background of the power plant, which I have translated.
Start of translation:
Russia controls Zaporizhia: Kiev's nuclear experiment has failed
Possible reasons were given for the provocations that neo-Nazis tried to stage at the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant. Citing Ukrainian nuclear workers, it became known that the nuclear experiment in Kiev was ended after the facility came under Russian control. This involves converting the nuclear power plants built in Soviet times to American fuel instead of Russian fuel. This process has been initiated in recent years under pressure from the United States. And now the problems and threats that have arisen in the nuclear power plants due to the purely political ambitions of the Ukrainian government will certainly come to light. What information would an American company prefer to hide, even if it were to lead to disaster?
There was the usual harsh condemnation on social media. From a company whose existence literally depends on the events in Ukraine, one could have expected a more emotional reaction.
"At a time of crisis in Ukraine, the Westinghouse family, like many of our colleagues, expresses its support for the people of Ukraine. We condemn the Russian invasion in the strongest possible terms."
American nuclear scientists are following developments in Ukraine with particular interest. Ukraine now has four nuclear power plants. There are 15 nuclear reactors. Almost all of them were built in the Soviet Union for domestic fuel cells. In recent years, however, seven plants have been converted to Westinghouse Electric's fuel.
This decision has surprised many people. In fact, Czech energy engineers used to try the same thing: they experimentally replaced Russian fuel rods with Westinghouse fuel in one of the power plants. And they experienced a fiasco.
"The use of the fuel elements had to be interrupted because Westinghouse's fuel assemblies had simultaneous pressure, bending and torsional deformations. For the first time in energy history, the Czechs have terminated the fuel contract and returned to the contracts with Rosatom," says Boris Martsinkevich, editor-in-chief of the analytical journal Geoenergetika.
Most power plant units in Ukraine are powered by VVER-1000 reactors. Their fuel elements are thin but very long – just under 4 meters – zirconium tubes filled with uranium or plutonium. These pipes are assembled into fuel elements of 312 pieces. They are supplied by TVEL and Westinghouse. But they are not the same thing. Even in the basic parameters – mass and size.
It is not surprising that the first attempt to "install" Westinghouse in the Ukrainian reactor at the Zaporizhia NPP resulted in a failure of the reactor and losses of $175 million. Since then, more accidents involving U.S. fuel have been reported repeatedly.
"Roughly speaking, if you take a cartridge and try to put it in an M-16 rifle, but it's a cartridge from our Kalashnikov assault rifle, there's no shot. It's about the same thing. When the Americans came and said, "Let's not buy Russian, former Soviet, rods," there was a purely technical question – how to adapt this thing for temperature regulation. They somehow made it," political analyst Marat Bashirov comments on the situation.
And the key word here is "somehow." How exactly was this work carried out? How reliable were the technical solutions? Nobody knows. But you would love to know.
And one more question: Why did Ukraine need all this? What does it mean for them? Most likely nothing at all. Westinghouse Electric, one of America's largest producers of nuclear fuel, is virtually bankrupt. All of his recent projects in the US and China have failed. The Chinese have sued them for a total of several billion dollars. And the Eastern European market was Westinghouse's last chance to survive. Presumably, it was the friends in Washington, whom Kiev does not dare to reject, who asked for it.
"What is happening now in Ukraine deprives this company of the European market. The military operation is likely to result in these nuclear power plants abandoning the use of American assemblies," says political scientist Marat Bashirov.
It is technically possible to rebuild everything as it was and to put Russian fuel rods back into the reactors. In addition, experts believe that the IAEA would even welcome such a step.
I don't believe that Russia offers anything "humanitarian" at this point.
Don't they offer this grain for the hard cold cash?
In the same manner as the US is not supplying the weapons to Ukraine with any "humanitarian" purpose in mind, and want the grain in return.
Best to let who wrote #13649 explain what he/she meant by the phrasing, since I also don't think of Russia as offering much that's humanitarian, or Ukraine for that matter having the money to give. My point was only to contribute additional data points to his/her analysis for comment, should they choose.
On the other hand, you could fully explain your assertions about Biden and the grain. There's never been enough detail or a background cite for me to fully grasp your point. Too, you seemed so pleased the stolen Ukrainian grain reaching Syria. Do you happen to know if that was (1) a buddy-transfer or (2) for humanitarian-purposes (hungry Syrians) or (3) grain sold at full-market value for Syria appeared to be the only country in the region willing to 'hold-its-nose' and buy stolen goods?
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