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The outcome for Russia is going to be bad. So why should NATO stop? Perhaps someone can answer this question without trying to gaslight everyone on the cause of the war. Because regardless of the cause, I can't see a positive outcome for Russia. The sanctions will NEVER go away.
I actually don’t agree with this. I think the lifting of sanctions will be a bargaining chip in eventual peace negotiations. I’m fine with that. Lifting sanctions won’t mean things return to normal. Europe has learned its lesson and will ensure it’s never dependent on Russia for oil and gas again. Companies will be leary about re-investing in Russia. Developing countries will have an important source of their food restored.
Threat of having sanctions reimposed may help keep Russia in check. On the other hand, permanent sanctions may make Russia feel it has nothing to lose by aggressive actions in future.
The outcome for Russia is going to be bad. So why should NATO stop? Perhaps someone can answer this question without trying to gaslight everyone on the cause of the war. Because regardless of the cause, I can't see a positive outcome for Russia. The sanctions will NEVER go away.
The stated policy of the US government is to "weaken Russia". Russia cannot rebuild from a wrecked economy. They don't have enough people left - down to 144M; lost 1M last year - and the people they do have left are too old.
In fact, the global population will begin to decline if it hasn't already, so Russia only needs to be destroyed once. If we do it right, those grandchildren we claim to worry about so much will never have to deal with the menace that is Russia.
"Countries at war fly through weapons and ammunition", says The Washington Post. And since Russia is unable to manufacture complex weapons and Ukraine has an unlimited supply, that puts time squarely on the side of Ukraine.
Not only will the sanctions, which captured so much of Russia's capital, never go away, but the companies boycotting, which now number about 1200 companies, will never return.
Russia may have suspected they would be sanctioned, but they NEVER expected to be boycotted the way they are. The Russian people will be fine. They'll have fuel and food. But they will live in a very poor country if this works out.
China is watching, and rethinking their plans of attacking or intimidating Taiwan. No country in the 21st century can stand and prosper against the sort of isolation Russia is experiencing.
Either the Russian military takes a serious beat down, or the Ukrainians, etc. will be fighting them again before long.
Exactly. This is our big chance...we must seize the day.
The West has to keep the pressure up...the monster (aka Russia) has to be
severly weakened and the split into pieces ...or it's just whac-a-mole.....
with Ukraine and the West having to face the same aggression ...again and again...
Russia has to be pretty much destroyed.
Lol, is this some sort of a justification of the completely unnecessary firebombing of Dresden that killed 10s of thousands of civilians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
Unfortunately, until that happened the German people were quite happy to fight on.
Starting in 1944 some of the USA forces in London were tasked to conduct a "Strategic Bombing Survey (SBS)" to determine if our massive air raids on Germany were having any effect. The SBS report indicated that the bombings had some effects but mostly just pissed off the bombed population which only made them work harder in response to allied efforts.
Side Note: One of the men doing the study, George W. Ball, became Under Secretary of State to Dean Rusk during the Vietnam War. Mr. Ball told President Johnson, and others involved in directing our military efforts, that bombing N. Vietnam would have little or no effect on the outcome of the war . . . and he was right.
In response to the current destruction in their nation the people of Ukraine appear to be responding with ever increasing opposition to Russia and its unprovoked aggression.
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Good comments from Mike.
The question was asked, "Back in the beginning of the invasion, why didn't we see this big cyber-attack where Russia just shuts everything down in Ukraine - gas, electricity, cell phones and all?"
The answer to that was:
#1 Ukraine had prepared. They took all their gas off computers and were turning big valves to make gas go where it was needed. So it was cyber-attack proof.
#2 Russia needed all those cell phone towers because they didn't bring their own battle command center with them. The only way they had to communicate was the Ukrainian cell towers.
#3 The Russians know perfectly well the US is capable of completely shutting down the Russian economy by using cyber warfare and they are afraid of that happening. So they will not open that door.
Jump to time 32:00 in the video. The whole video is interesting, though. Experts talking about the war.
Excerpt: "Starting just before the invasion, we have seen at least six separate Russia-aligned nation-state actors launch more than 237 operations against Ukraine – including destructive attacks that are ongoing and threaten civilian welfare. ... Russia’s use of cyberattacks appears to be strongly correlated and sometimes directly timed with its kinetic military operations targeting services and institutions crucial for civilians. ... "
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 05-24-2022 at 04:04 PM..
Starting in 1944 some of the USA forces in London were tasked to conduct a "Strategic Bombing Survey (SBS)" to determine if our massive air raids on Germany were having any effect. The SBS report indicated that the bombings had some effects but mostly just pissed off the bombed population which only made them work harder in response to allied efforts.
Side Note: One of the men doing the study, George W. Ball, became Under Secretary of State to Dean Rusk during the Vietnam War. Mr. Ball told President Johnson, and others involved in directing our military efforts, that bombing N. Vietnam would have little or no effect on the outcome of the war . . . and he was right.
In response to the current destruction in their nation the people of Ukraine appear to be responding with ever increasing opposition to Russia and its unprovoked aggression.
This is what I see.
The excuse Putin put forward for invading Ukraine was to liberate the Russian speaking Ukrainians from some supposed 'oppression' from the Kyiv government.
Now Putin is bombing the hell out of those very people he pretended to care about. He has been torching their cities and towns in a terror campaign. This can not be the way to 'liberate' them, can it?
Exactly. This is our big chance...we must seize the day.
The West has to keep the pressure up...the monster (aka Russia) has to be
severly weakened and the split into pieces ...or it's just whac-a-mole.....
with Ukraine and the West having to face the same aggression ...again and again...
Russia has to be pretty much destroyed.
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