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Old 02-28-2022, 06:33 AM
exm
 
3,720 posts, read 1,777,881 times
Reputation: 2849

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
That statement isn't propaganda. It's the truth.

You said I am the one repeating Russian propaganda. If you can't prove it, you're merely making a hollow assertion.

If it's the truth, can you back this up with reliable sources? From what I have seen so far, the Ukrainian people are brave, courageous and friendly people. They actually have free elections, unlike in Russia. Thanks.

 
Old 02-28-2022, 06:37 AM
 
Location: World
4,204 posts, read 4,685,867 times
Reputation: 2841
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
If it's the truth, can you back this up with reliable sources? From what I have seen so far, the Ukrainian people are brave, courageous and friendly people. They actually have free elections, unlike in Russia. Thanks.

Many people still believe that US Elections were Rigged in 2020
 
Old 02-28-2022, 06:45 AM
 
14,798 posts, read 17,672,141 times
Reputation: 9246
As expected, Russian economy imploding. Russian central bank raising interest rates to 20% from 9.5% to try and stop hyperinflation. Ruble plummets to new lows. Russian stock market not opened yet. Run on banks in Russia expected.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/28/russ...ter-ruble.html
 
Old 02-28-2022, 06:45 AM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,785,636 times
Reputation: 37884
Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
Many people still believe that US Elections were Rigged in 2020
Would these be the same gullible dupes who send money to Trump?

In any case, this thread is about Putin sending the Russian army to invade Ukraine.

Whatever pretext he came up with, and I'm surprised he didn't accuse the Ukrainians of being pedophiles, a perennial RW favorite, it appears he has miscalculated the response.

Reports are Russian soldiers are out of food, and running low on enthusiasm. I've read reports that they are surrendering in small groups of 5 - 10 at a time. Several thousand contract soldiers refused to go in at all, claiming their contract didn't cover killing Ukrainians.
 
Old 02-28-2022, 06:52 AM
 
8,494 posts, read 3,334,242 times
Reputation: 6991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
<snip>

Of course, these facts appear not to enter your thinking; ditto for what Kennan, Mearsheimer, and Cohen have all written/said about this issue....
You've been repeating analyses by Mearsheimer and Cohen. Putin now has moved beyond what they appeared to have envisioned by his massive violation of national sovereignty. Cohen, now-dead, unfortunately is unavailable to comment.

A while back I listened to a Mearsheimer lecture made in 2014 or 2015 on Ukraine where he outright stated Putin would never be foolish enough to invade the country, stating he could accomplish his goals by other means. That Putin was too shrewd to take that step.

Curious as to what he thinks in the PRESENT, I googled to find Mearsheimer participating in a short interview right before the invasion:
https://news.wttw.com/2022/02/21/us-...ukraine-crisis

His take was an invasion remained unlikely due to the enormous economic ramifications for Russia ... the difficulty in occupying Ukraine. More, Putin did not NEED to invade to accomplish his goal. Putting troops on the border is enough of a demonstration to make it "impossible" that Ukraine would ever become part of NATO. A "smart" Putin will "sit back and continue to pull the levers as he's been doing." Do you have anything more recent than 7 days ago on Mearsheimer's thinking?

What you're missing is that this invasion moves the situation into a whole new level of crisis. With it perfectly reasonably to NOW assess Putin as having much wider geopolitical goals than just Donbas and NATO.

Once again, anything more recent from Mearsheimer?
 
Old 02-28-2022, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Elysium
12,382 posts, read 8,134,444 times
Reputation: 9192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Notice Putin is NOT bombing cities and causing mass casualties?

The US has put Ukraine in this position they are in. They went from a neutral buffer state to US backed corrupt state.

Putin has fallen for this trap. The west wants higher oil prices and a shortage to blame Putin but to further their New Green Scam and World Order.
What will bombing cities into submission accomplish? Sure a politician might try to surrender but you also are more likely to create an even more motivated secular Mujahideen corps
 
Old 02-28-2022, 07:03 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 5,328,081 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Notice Putin is NOT bombing cities and causing mass casualties?

The US has put Ukraine in this position they are in. They went from a neutral buffer state to US backed corrupt state.

Putin has fallen for this trap. The west wants higher oil prices and a shortage to blame Putin but to further their New Green Scam and World Order.
Some of the sources I have been following (some which certain posters on this thread would, in all likelihood, summarily dismiss as "propaganda") state that the Russian military has made efforts to avoid striking civilian centers. This is why there are no reports of Ukrainian electricity, water, or Internet services having been suspended.

Russia has a fearsome military apparatus. If it had wanted to do so, it could have rained down thousands of missiles on every Ukrainian city in no less a destructive manner than the Luftwaffe struck London or the U.S. and UK air forces struck Dresden or the way Imperial Japanese craft struck Shanghai or the way the U.S. air force rained down bombs on so many Japanese cities that by the time August 1945 arrived, save for a handful of cities (including Hiroshima and Nagasaki), every single Japanese city with at least 30,000 inhabitants had been severely damaged by bombing.

Russia's air force and missiles are far more advanced than what the world saw between 1939 and 1945; it could do horrifying damage to all Ukrainian cities if it wanted to.

It'd be all over the news if it were happening.
 
Old 02-28-2022, 07:05 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 5,328,081 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
You've been repeating analyses by Mearsheimer and Cohen. Putin now has moved beyond what they appeared to have envisioned by his massive violation of national sovereignty. Cohen, now-dead, unfortunately is unavailable to comment.

A while back I listened to a Mearsheimer lecture made in 2014 or 2015 on Ukraine where he outright stated Putin would never be foolish enough to invade the country, stating he could accomplish his goals by other means. That Putin was too shrewd to take that step.

Curious as to what he thinks in the PRESENT, I googled to find Mearsheimer participating in a short interview right before the invasion:
https://news.wttw.com/2022/02/21/us-...ukraine-crisis

His take was an invasion remained unlikely due to the enormous economic ramifications for Russia ... the difficulty in occupying Ukraine. More, Putin did not NEED to invade to accomplish his goal. Putting troops on the border is enough of a demonstration to make it "impossible" that Ukraine would ever become part of NATO. A "smart" Putin will "sit back and continue to pull the levers as he's been doing." Do you have anything more recent than 7 days ago on Mearsheimer's thinking?

What you're missing is that this invasion moves the situation into a whole new level of crisis. With it perfectly reasonably to NOW assess Putin as having much wider geopolitical goals than just Donbas and NATO.

Once again, anything more recent from Mearsheimer?
Mearsheimer is far more knowledgeable than both you and me and than every poster on C-D. Could he have missed something? Sure.

But his main thesis - that U.S. and NATO intervention caused Maidan, led to much human suffering, and increased tensions there by pushing Ukraine to press for NATO membership would be very dangerous and cause the "wrecking" of Ukraine - have stood the test of time. In fact, we're seeing that wrecking (of parts of Ukraine) in real-time.
 
Old 02-28-2022, 07:09 AM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,150,612 times
Reputation: 54995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post

But his main thesis - that U.S. and NATO intervention caused Maidan, led to much human suffering, and increased tensions there by pushing Ukraine to press for NATO membership would be very dangerous and cause the "wrecking" of Ukraine - have stood the test of time. In fact, we're seeing that wrecking (of parts of Ukraine) in real-time.
Just like Finland, Ukraine's role was to be a buffer Country between the East and West. The US pushed them out of that role and they are now paying a price.
 
Old 02-28-2022, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,596 posts, read 9,434,738 times
Reputation: 22935
As predicted, Ukraine asking for a cease fire.

Very smart, violence is not the answer

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877
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