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You make things up as you go, but me - I provided plenty of information, I backed up my statements.
You so far provided only some silly cartoon to confirm your "depth of knowledge."
Please come up with something more substantial next time, if you want to be taken seriously.
I provided said 'silly cartoon' (and that particular episode WAS hilarious - you need to set your wayback machine to 30 years prior) because it was on equal footing validity wise as the discredited swill you dredge up on behest of your controllers.
There are exactly 3 scenarios here, I let you choose which one fits:
1) you are making things up as you go and posting them to some undiscovered end
but I do not believe you possess the ability to produce youtube videos ergo...(forgive me, but I looked)
2) you are posting made up (lets not argue this point, *everyone* knows and acknowledges it is false information - or if you persist, learn something about how codecs are created and how you can easily tell when they are manipulated - you present yourself as silly when you assert otherwise) 'stuff' for some yet undiscovered end, and do not believe in the veracity of the info, but do it anyways for uninteresting reasons or
3) you are posting made up 'stuff' for some yet undiscovered end, and most certainly do believe in the veracity of the info....which if true, makes this just sad.
All of your assertions, with respect to russia, are false. that is why I fun with ya. no real reason to be mean or call you names.
Some time ago you asked if I knew about Stepan Bandera who is a symbol of Ukrainian Nazism to some but of Ukrainian nationalism (as in statehood) to others. Learned what I could. Spent a fair amount of time sorting thru the various organizations. Typed it out but then never posted since the discussion had moved on. Perhaps now it's more relevant.
Briefly what caught my interest is how a people may be convinced they KNOW a history when what they believe even of their own may not match a "reality" that itself may be partially lost due to destroyed and fabricated documents. Ukrainians appear to have sanitized some of the past but then if not embraced today does that make them Nazis as charged by Putin?
Stepan Bandera was an authoritarian antisemitic fascist who above all was a nationalist willing to use any means to create a Ukrainian state. He became the leader of radical offshoot within the nationalistic movement, called the OUM-B (for Bandera) then was imprisoned by the Poles for attempting to assassinate a Polish governmental official. Freed as the Germans invaded, he spent the next two years organizing OUM-B cells in Ukraine allying the OUM-B to the occupying Germans in the hopes of obtaining an Ukrainian state. Which per some reports, he almost did until Hitler horrified at a slav in power absolutely refused.
At that point - June 1941 - Bandera was imprisoned then placed into a concentration camp where he remained for almost the entirety of the war. The OUM-B turned to fighting Germans, particularly when they or allied Ukrainians were threatened. In 1942, it formed the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA).
In contrast to the OUM-B, other Ukrainian nationalists were associated with Nazis until later in the war. The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) formed in 1943 and included nationalists from the OUM-M or Meltzer-led faction.
Quote:
"The creation of a Ukrainian SS division was perceived by many in Ukraine as a step towards the attainment of Ukrainian independence and attracted many volunteers." This wiki article has the organizer a Dmytro Paliiv whose pre-war associates belonged to the moderate, left-leaning democratic UNDO movement that pre-war opposed the authoritarian OUN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W..._(1st_Galician)
It may have primarily fought Russians since most Ukrainian Jews had been killed by 1943, and neither they nor for some reason the OUM-B were accused at the Nuremberg Trials or by Israel of atrocities. The OUM-B denies it participated in the Lviv massacre of Jews instead blaming the Gestapo who riled up the local population attributing NKVD-led killings to Jewish Bolsheviks. That's probably revisionism. The OUM-B was in Lviv at that time and had been armed by the Germans. Historians reject proffered documental proofs as falsified.
As the German retreat began, nationalists refocused their attention and began to sanitize their history. This document was supposedly released in 1943. It is a version of history found in mainstream histories today as well as what appears to have been taught to Ukrainians.
Quote:
Although the UPA was controlled by the OUN(B), it included people of various political and ideological convictions. Furthermore, it needed the support of the broad masses against both the Germans and the Soviets. Much of the nationalist ideology, including the concept of dictatorship, did not appeal to former Soviet citizens who had experienced the dictatorship of the Communist Party. Hence, a revision of the OUN(B) ideology and political program was imperative. At its Third Extraordinary Grand Assembly on 21–25 August 1943, the OUN(B) condemned ‘internationalist and fascist national-socialist programs and political concepts’ as well as ‘Russian-Bolshevik communism’ and proposed a ‘system of free peoples and independent states [as] the single best solution to the problem of world order.’ Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists
I question its sincerity since 1943 was also about the time that the UPA undertook a large-scale ethnic cleansing of Poles. Ukrainians and Poles fought right after ww1 when for three years Ukrainians controlled enough of Poland to fashion a state of sorts. Poles, in turn, retaliated.
Quote:
"According to Timothy Snyder, the ethnic cleansing was a Ukrainian attempt to prevent the post-war Polish state from asserting its sovereignty over Ukrainian-majority areas that had been part of the prewar Polish state. Henryk Komański and Szczepan Siekierka write that the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...astern_Galicia.
Later the UPA joined by numerous Ukrainians who had no connection to the Nazis conducted an insurgency against the NKVD and returning Soviets that lasted for some years after the formal end of ww2. So where was Stepan Bandera with his still-radical fascist philosophy at that time? Never in Ukraine. One version has him "flattered" as "too important a thinker" and discouraged his return. Another:
Quote:
Ukrainian sources confirmed that “fighting people in the homeland … [were] not prepared to accept [Bandera] as a dictator,” and that Bandera’s program “was unacceptable to the resistance movement inside [Ukraine].” https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778
So given the multiple players and numerous factions, how did Stepan Bandera become so important? To start, he remained in Germany and created Bandera-the-hero in the 1950s to Ukrainian refugees using print and the W. German radio. Here, I assume he did not emphasize Jew-killng nor Polish ethnic cleansing.
Bandera also worked with the British intelligence during the Cold War era but was rejected by the CIA:
Quote:
"... owing to Bandera’s infatuation with his own legend. “Bandera,” said one CIA report from 1948, “is by nature a political intransigent of great personal ambition [who] has…opposed all political organizations in the emigration which favor a representative form of government in the Ukraine, as opposed to a mono-party, OUN/Bandera regime.” https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778
In 1959, he attempted to ally himself with the BND (German intelligence) at which point the KGB decided to assassinate him, reportedly using cyanide, thus cementing Stepan Bandera as a national hero who fell to the Soviets.
Quote:
Because Bandera effectively promoted his own legend, and because the Soviets were behind his death, émigrés who did not know any better labeled him as the martyred leader of Ukrainians abroad. https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778
He is, of course, a symbol of Ukrainian statehood to the average Ukrainian although there may well be some knowledge of his early and temporary alliance with Nazi Germany. At the time same, neo-Nazi's discovered his writings from 1940 and 1941 that - as he courted Germany - were particularly fascist in tone. That becomes their version of Bandera.
Ukraine, however, is not an authoritarian state. Post-Bandera, nationalists do not appear to have promoted an authoritarian state. Ukraine is not particularly anti-semitic, certainly not more so than it's Eastern European neighbors in the 1940s. The UPA once the OUM-B gave up on statehood from the Nazis actually worked to save some Jews particularly within the professional class, finding them useful for a future Ukrainian state in contrast to the Poles who were a threat and, as mentioned, killed.
History is complex. Propaganda tends to go for the short inflammatory message, which is the history lesson Putin has been giving to the Russians presumably to prepare them for this invasion. The word Nazi terrifies and horrifies the Russian people, and understandably so.
Last edited by EveryLady; 03-17-2022 at 08:23 PM..
Russian Forces restores water to Crimea - after 8 years of having their water supply blocked. This hasn't been really discussed in our media but must have been a major priority for Russia and one of the reasons they decided to enter Ukraine territory.
Recent nuclear saber rattling by Russian President Vladimir Putin is forcing the West to confront a question that even many national security professionals have been able to ignore for decades: Would Putin actually use tactical nuclear weapons? More specifically, would he order a tactical nuclear strike on Ukrainian military forces out of frustration that his military forces have failed to achieve their objectives? Assessing that possibility requires a reevaluation of certain assumptions that is long overdue.
The answer to your question....maybe. This could lead to the use of of small tactical nukes.
This guy is truly an inspiration to his people, and even to those of us from the outside looking in. People try to detract from him because he was an actor/comedian, and so much other mudslinging. He has united the people of Ukraine and reinforced their courage and conviction to save their country and their people from the oppression of their despotic invading neighbor.
I really wish our own country would follow suit and let some young blood into the political leadership sphere, someone who is not a career politician and at the end of their twilight years.
Conversely, I can't imagine Putin, the guy who just replaced 1,000 of his personal staff over fear of being poisoned, going to visit the wounded Russian conscripts from his misfired invasion.
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