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Old 03-22-2022, 09:02 PM
 
7,242 posts, read 4,042,849 times
Reputation: 16555

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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
He also told the world that sanctions would be considered an act of war. Sanctions were imposed. What did he do in response? Nothing. He is displaying classic bully behavior. As long as people are afraid of him, he is in control. If strong countries step up, he will run to a corner and whimper.
The USA/NATO are the bullies.

Think about the Ukraine 2014 presidential election. There is an election. A small portion of the population is unhappy with the results. They stage a protest outside government offices. The CIA comes in. Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State, brings cup of coffee and donuts to the protestors. She tells them the USA supports their revolution. The legally elected president flees Ukraine fearing for his life.

Think about USA 2020 presidential election. There is an election. A small portion of the population is unhappy with the results. They stage a protest outside government offices like January 6th.

How would you feel if a foreign government's CIA came in to the picture? How would you feel if their Assistant Secretary of State, brings cup of coffee and donuts to the protestors? A foreign official tells them Country X supports their revolution.

Who is the bully?

 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
14,742 posts, read 9,679,171 times
Reputation: 11856
It's only a matter of time before some red line is made and crossed.

Will someone please kill that SOB, Putin. At this point, it's the only way out of this mess.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:04 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
42,665 posts, read 17,872,014 times
Reputation: 34717
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
The USA/NATO are the bullies.

Think about the Ukraine 2014 presidential election. There is an election. A small portion of the population is unhappy with the results. They stage a protest outside government offices. The CIA comes in. Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State, brings cup of coffee and donuts to the protestors. She tells them the USA supports their revolution. The legally elected president flees Ukraine fearing for his life.

Think about USA 2020 presidential election. There is an election. A small portion of the population is unhappy with the results. They stage a protest outside government offices like January 6th.

How would you feel if a foreign government's CIA came in to the picture? How would you feel if their Assistant Secretary of State, brings cup of coffee and donuts to the protestors? A foreign official tells them Country X supports their revolution.

Who is the bully?
China got it right. China said the conflict is between the US and Russia and they need to solve it.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,452 posts, read 9,315,996 times
Reputation: 22811
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
NATO declined to send a peacekeeping force into Ukraine when Zelensky asked.
Poland plans to present a very emotional and formal plea to NATO tomorrow about a peacekeeping force in Ukraine to save the women and children.

You may get your WWIII if NATO says yes.


https://ussanews.com/poland-will-for...this-thursday/
Poland can send their own troops to Ukraine if they feel so strongly about it.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:07 PM
 
1,333 posts, read 466,258 times
Reputation: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
That is a big unknown item no one knows for sure. Russia does not want that region, people are really aligned with Poland, rather than with Russia. Culturally and religiously. Even their version of Ukrainian is heavily-polish-indluenced (compared to Eastern version of Ukrainian that most Russians can easily understand without a translator).


What Russia cannot afford there is to allow unclave of 'independent' land, since it could be used to continue to wage the endless war with the help of Western countries who would be glad to supply Patriots or anything else. If Poland annex the land and make it a part of Poland, that would be the best outcome. Yet, Poland is unlikely to do so (who would want to give citizenship to millions of very angry people and spend millions of euros to rebuild their economy, and deal with the crime there, etc).

I don't think there is a solid plan in Kremlin what to do. Even Stalin had to fight the war against bandera-followers for 10 years after WW2 and died before the war was over (Khrushev let them out from jails, but him being an Ukrainian himself, it led to the end of open hostilities for half of the century).

According to Strelkov's analysis, Kremlin expected something of quick surrender with all the Ukrainian elites to integrate into Russian ruling party (and retaining all of their economic interests and big deal of sovereignty in local affairs). The plan failed, and now it must be war till the capitulation of one side, or another.

This is my private opinion, based on Strelkov's analysis (which is a private citizen nowadays), which correlates with my understanding of things based on me watching other sources.
You have some hard line ideologues embedded with the government and the military of Ukraine. Capitulation means acquiescence to whatever peace accords can be negotiated. It also wouldn't surprise me if the US wasn't trying to provide armaments and supplies for a guerrilla campaign to be maintained. They're getting supplied, obviously, but I think there's now talks of a government in exile or something. As to the western areas, I know that the Svoboda party got as high of the vote as over 30% in some oblasts back in the 2012 parliamentary elections.

One proposed outcome getting tossed around is a partitioning of Ukraine with the Dnieper River functioning as a natural barrier. I think everything from Odessa to Kharkiv would be set aside as a Russian friendly governance while northern and western Ukraine is neutered and made militarily unaligned. It would cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea. Russia would probably like having direct land access to Transnistria whom they support.

The thing is you still have a relatively significant Russia speaking population throughout the rest of the country. A quarter to over half of central and northeastern Ukraine speak Russian. As you pointed out, western Ukraine is an outlier. My issue is that I think there should be some reconciliation. The Ukrainians and Russians hail from the same proto-Slavic roots dating back 1000 years. Their history and culture has been interconnected for centuries.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:09 PM
 
7,242 posts, read 4,042,849 times
Reputation: 16555
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Intercepted Russian invaders' phone call.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-FE1M1PeRg
Today's weather in Ukraine was 59 degrees Fahrenheit. It's nice/warmer in Ukraine then New York.

In New York, there're too many cases of frostbite either.

Stop propaganda!
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Florida
14,742 posts, read 9,679,171 times
Reputation: 11856
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
China got it right. China said the conflict is between the US and Russia and they need to solve it.
I disagree. It's a EU vs Russia problem. The EU's weakness via dependency has led to this. That Russian ***** they're in bed with, isn't so pretty in the morning.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,710,336 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
It's only a matter of time before some red line is made and crossed.

Will someone please kill that SOB, Putin. At this point, it's the only way out of this mess.
That's up to the Russians.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Elysium
12,337 posts, read 8,068,768 times
Reputation: 9162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
Except I cited an article directly from Ukrainian military saying that “there was no military solution to Mariupol”. Your right I was premature to say it “had fell”, but it’s really only a formality at this point with over 50% of the city in Russian control and Azov retreating to a nearby steel plant.
Every time a steel plant is mentioned I am remembering the Red October plant in Stalingrad and how that ended up.
 
Old 03-22-2022, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,867,657 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryvete View Post
One proposed outcome getting tossed around is a partitioning of Ukraine with the Dnieper River functioning as a natural barrier. I think everything from Odessa to Kharkiv would be set aside as a Russian friendly governance while northern and western Ukraine is neutered and made militarily unaligned. It would cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea. Russia would probably like having direct land access to Transnistria whom they support.

The thing is you still have a relatively significant Russia speaking population throughout the rest of the country. A quarter to over half of central and northeastern Ukraine speak Russian. As you pointed out, western Ukraine is an outlier. My issue is that I think there should be some reconciliation. The Ukrainians and Russians hail from the same proto-Slavic roots dating back 1000 years. Their history and culture has been interconnected for centuries.
Whichever outcome is, it needs to be negotiated after the war with a responsible government that has sufficient power to enforce the terms of the agreement. As you probably know, Zelensky was elected with the promise to start peace talks with Donbass, yet he was not allowed to go that direction by nationalists.
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