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Old 03-30-2022, 03:18 PM
 
26,732 posts, read 22,409,968 times
Reputation: 10023

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlamDuncanitis View Post
Russia is the closest thing to 1984 in today's day and age.

I mean historically it always has been. Since it was Soviet, and still today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cG3PlcSiLA

I consider that it's fault of the West in many ways, the US government in particular, that it abandoned its principles of freedom and democracy when it came to post-Soviet, Russia and went with its mercantile interest at heart instead.

It SHOULDN'T have shake hands with yesterday's party/KGB bosses as soon as they promised an easy access to the Russian natural resources.

Instead, the US gov. had to see through that Russia established the working system of laws and multi-party system first in place.

But that's not what they pursued first and utmost.

The results didn't wait long to settle in.



And since these results were NOT what Americans were looking for ( quite predictably so,) the part II came in place, with "Ukrainian project," - i.e. to hit Russia yet again with an idea to weaken it.

So if you ask me, these are two parts of the same storybook;


Part I ("Russia proper")



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5ehIPGW9rU


And Part II (Ukraine)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dFtmkmzpVk

 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:19 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,598,837 times
Reputation: 9907
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
I agree that we have the best system and the results have been clear on this. We have the most innovation and free spirit, the American dream is still alive. However, we have to call out those that are supposed to represent us on the global stage. Those that operate under the guise of “American interests and democracy” when they really are protecting special interests. They make enemies and regime change everywhere, leaving behind destruction and corruption. This is what we did in Ukraine in 2014, in Libya, in Iraq, in Syria and countless other places. This is the actions of what is called the “deep state” that acts outside of our democracy and doesn’t represent the will of the American people. They give us a bad name on the global stage and create enemies with disregard for the consequences.
Well...in the middle east I do believe it is the Israelis who have us by the gonads, and why we cater to that I really don't know, but we are intracately tied together in secrecy. I personally am completely against the settlements in Palestine and think the USA should be sanctioning Israel.
That and the billions to be made in weapons manufacturing, can you say Halliburton and Cheneys? So we agree on that. As a centrist who mostly votes democratic, but leans right on a few issues, I can say with pride that I am not one of the people who ever voted for the Bush wars.

But "authoritarianism" from the left? No, just no no no. That is coming from the right with everything from abortion to trying to force conservatism in the schools. It's frightening what the Christian right is forcing on everyone else under the guise of "non-profit" which needs to be taken away from churches who are obviously using that very same non-profit money to fund conservatism.
One thing for sure though--in all our stupid wars, you never saw our motivation to be a land grab like Putin's is.
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:22 PM
 
4,905 posts, read 2,673,345 times
Reputation: 6932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
There is no change in the US because it doesn't matter who is president. The important people behind the scenes that actually run Washington remain the same regardless of who is in the WH or Congress. And those people are no better than Putin.
True.
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:25 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,598,837 times
Reputation: 9907
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
Thinking about it. Although the fact that my children grew up in this country and speak primarily in English, and going there would mean total break up of all the friendships that me and them acquired here... Well, moving around when you're older, is not as easy as when you're 20. But I am thinking about it more and more these days. USA of 2020 is not the same country I came to 30 years ago.
Just remember that if you have learned to being accustomed to American freedoms like speech on this thread right now--you better never speak out against Putin or you'll find yourself in the gulag.
Something about that fact tells me that you are never going home.
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:25 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,680,279 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
The reasons that there is good jobs, freedom, and every other perk of living in the USA is BECAUSE of how we run our country, it is all connected, and democracy is the backbone of our system. Nothing about the wages, good life, nice car home etc., would exist WITHOUT OUR DEMOCRACY. You call that a joke? Tell that to the billions of people who would like to emigrate and can only dream about it.
I don't think it has to do with democracy.
The HDI of Singapore is higher than that of the US, the income is higher than in the US, etc. - but Singapore is not really democratic. I think a key factor might be space. Singapore has little space, it is not made for immigration.
Here in Portugal on the other hand democracy is rather good, yet the country sucks in many respects.
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:34 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,598,837 times
Reputation: 9907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't think it has to do with democracy.
The HDI of Singapore is higher than that of the US, the income is higher than in the US, etc. - but Singapore is not really democratic. I think a key factor might be space. Singapore has little space, it is not made for immigration.
Here in Portugal on the other hand democracy is rather good, yet the country sucks in many respects.
Well Russia has more open space than any other country on the planet, how come people the world over don't want to emigrate there?
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:36 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,680,279 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
Well Russia has more open space than any other country on the planet, how come people the world over don't want to emigrate there?
Because it is very cold and nobody speaks Russian
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:37 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,680,279 times
Reputation: 9728
The Ukrainian side also attacks residential areas, like here in Donetsk today:

https://avia-pro.net/news/vsu-obrush...dary-na-doneck
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:40 PM
 
5,722 posts, read 2,181,227 times
Reputation: 3867
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
The plan to green energy may obviously have to be shelved for awhile in Germany because of this war. Are the Germans willing to pay higher prices for gas to get off dependence on Russia? Absolutely. Same goes for the US, recent polls on whether we would pay higher prices for gasoline if it meant we could stop all import of Russian oil was about 75% in favor of. Yes, respect for freedom really does mean that people will open their wallets to support it.
Russia isn't attacking a NATO country, no, you are correct. They are attacking the very system of democracy by attacking their weaker smaller newly democratized nation next door. To us in the USA, that's comparable to the war of 1812, with us wanting to protect this young democratic nation from it's ugly fat bully of a step-brother.
I don't view you as taking this situation as seriously as you might consider that situations like this are a global threat to democracy everywhere.
There will be a land grab involved in this before it is over. Putin will steal land, and to do it, he is murdering people and destroying entire cities. Are you really ok with that?
All killing and war is hell, I don’t support this invasion just like I don’t support the shelling of the Donbass from 2014-2022 (after the US backed coup) that killed 14,00 people. Russia wasn’t innocent in that, but neither was Ukraine. I only see one side making demands to us that we go to WW3, or to put our economies in a recession after we are trying to recover from the pandemic that hurt so many people.

You are correct, Ukraine will likely lose land and that is terrible, they have also lost 4 million citizens that fled the country and may never come back. I take this situation very seriously, but we have to be rational. We are already at economic war with Russia and are funding much of this war for Ukraine. The sooner this conflict ends the better, which is why if we pushed Ukraine to pursue negotiations, they will have to listen.

Last edited by ColoradoOnMyMind; 03-30-2022 at 03:51 PM..
 
Old 03-30-2022, 03:40 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,598,837 times
Reputation: 9907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Because it is very cold and nobody speaks Russian
It's very cold in Norway, yet they are the happiest people on the planet year after year. It's cold in Finland and Sweden too. I'd move to those places in a heartbeat over Putin's nazi style rebirth of the USSR.
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