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Now expanding possible Azov actions to the Ukrainian military and on to the government with a mysterious proof from Kiev.
More, Russians might not want to open lines that could allow for possible Ukrainian resupply. But then why should Azov open their defensive lines or stop firing to allow civilians thru that direction?
To show a shred of decency that they obviously don't have?
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If we must speculate: why in the world would Separatists not gain ground once civilians started moving?
What are you talking about?
Of course they gained ground, and once they started to gain ground, that's when civilians started moving out in droves.
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The second bold is flat-out wrong. At least 100,000 left.
Once the Russian/DNR troops took over over parts of the city, they started moving civilians out from those parts.
The more they were takinf over the city, the more civilians were able to leave.
(Didn't you hear them telling exactly that - they they were helped by the DNR army to move out of the city?)
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Earlier in this thread I gave the date when the AP reporters arrived in Mariupol, and even they appeared surprised at 'waking up to war.' Perhaps the Russians don't broadcast their troop movements.
The Ukrainian army in the area is well aware of it. As much as they are aware of the DNR army movement.
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You keep citing civilians as if they and now you understand what the *F* was going on when what was happening for sure was a war.
Yeah, they lived in the basements for 20 days straight because of the bombardmets plus Azov shooting civilians.
You think they'd know by then that they are in the midst of the war?
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What is known: Russia invaded. Russia attacked a city of then 400,000 people. Russia seriously destroyed the infrastructure of said city. Sounds like 5,000 civilians died, at least. The remainder went through hell. All in the name of de-nazification that you've explained is less about antisemitism and more about brutal force.
All in the name of changing this Nationalist government, with its Nazi policies ( yes, that doesn't necessarily imply persecution of Jews in this case.)
And now it looks like the Russian society doesn't want its government to stop, until this particular goal is accomplished.
Most people in Scandinavia live in the big coastal cities such as Oslo, which are clearly milder than Moscow, which is already one of the milder cities in Russia.
Look at this hardiness zone map:
People don't exactly flock to Canada, either, despite the English language.
And are Scandinavians really the happiest? They also rank among the countries with the highest anti-depressant consumption per capita.
Yes Neuling - educate the Ukrainians here a bit please what the "West" REALLY is, and not what they IMAGINE it is.
This just makes no sense. Someone here declared 5 days ago that Mariupol had fallen, and 10 days before that someone else here had declared Mariupol had fallen. Stay tuned for the next weekly "Mariupol has fallen" post.
Of course they gained ground, and once they started to gain ground, that's when civilians started moving out in droves.
Once the Russian/DNR troops took over over parts of the city, they started moving civilians out from those parts.
The more they were takinf over the city, the more civilians were able to leave.
(Didn't you hear them telling exactly that - they they were helped by the DNR army to move out of the city?)
Clearly I'm not in 'favor' of this invasion unlike the Russian public. No point in saying more except to clarify:
IF Russians were unwilling to stop shelling (allowing opposing Ukrainians some military or resupply advantage) that trapped citizens from moving to the west then why might Azov have allowed citizens to cross their lines (and not fire) presumably giving Separatists troops some freedom of movement? Both sides prioritizing military advantage over civilian needs. War does that, which is why war is not such a cool thing.
Clearly there were very unhappy civilians interviewed in the West about the shelling and some very unhappy citizens interviewed by Patrick Lancaster asking about Azov in the East. Both Russians and Ukrainians have occupied civilians homes in this war. To focus so on the one but not the other shows a singular focus.
That's all. Your answer was non-responsive. Earlier answers ignoring Irpin with no Azov members in sight, to my knowledge. Did you watch that video?
A good Russian friend decades ago (1991 still USSR) told me that rioting and that type of thing was not tolerated. I agree.
However I do not believe that nobody is arrested for expressing opinions. Russia has basically made protesting illegal. Did you see that video posted earlier in the thread of Russian police looking through random people's phones on the street?
I do not believe since Putin is back that Russians have half the equivalent of the bill of rights.
And I think Putin has stolen the presidency in your homeland and made himself tzar, and anyone who may oust him will be poisoned. I believe Putin currently has the same control as Kim Jong-un.
I don't live there and really am not in position to prove or disprove anything. I know Putin's approval rating is not 100%, maybe even in the area of 50% give or take. Russians in general have low opinion of their politicians. But there's no huge sentiment to change one bad politician for another. And people there had enough freedom in 90ies, that they don't want any repetition of that. Choosing security over freedom, so to say. Having said that, things are gradually improving economically. New enterprises are built, factories, stores, buildings. I won't be able to recognize the city I grew up any more. Russian way of democracy is rioting when things got totally bad. It is not bad there though.
First you want to know why the Ukrainians did not evacuate an entire city. When the sheer impossibility of that appears evident, now you retreat to your friend's experience. Never have a discounted your friend's story. Only said that did not reflect the reality of your first "proof."
The key in his testimony was lack of any desire to evacuate the people, quite contrary - there were explicit orders to stay in place.
This just makes no sense. Someone here declared 5 days ago that Mariupol had fallen, and 10 days before that someone else here had declared Mariupol had fallen. Stay tuned for the next weekly "Mariupol has fallen" post.
A big part of Azov ( and Ukrainian troops I assume) are still operating in the industrial part of the city.
As I've mentioned before, once the residential areas are set free, the Russian gov. is considering to level the industrial part of the city with the remaining troops in it.
I assume that's why they want to give them a chance to come out and to save their lives first.
P.S. Russians don't want their troops to go house to house any longer, as it was in the residential areas, when the civilians were still around.
Now it's the industrial part of the city, where the Russian commandment doesn't want to lose any more soldiers, and they don't care about the infrastructure.
Most people in Scandinavia live in the big coastal cities such as Oslo, which are clearly milder than Moscow, which is already one of the milder cities in Russia.
Look at this hardiness zone map:
People don't exactly flock to Canada, either, despite the English language.
And are Scandinavians really the happiest? They also rank among the countries with the highest anti-depressant consumption per capita.
Hey Neuling, ever heard of Krasnodar? ....Sochi? ....Moscow is at 56 degrees north,
Russian territory goes down to 42 degrees north...14 degrees farther south than Moscow.
Sochi climate is almost as good as where you are in Portugal.
Krasnodar climate is like southern Ohio/northern Kentucky.
As for people not flocking to Canada...that's BS....Canada excepts 300,000 to 400,000
immigrants per year....most now coming from "warm" countries.
People just do not want to move to Russia for obvious reasons,
the leader sucks, the economy sucks...etc...
A big part of Azov ( and Ukrainian troops I assume) are still operating in the industrial part of the city.
As I've mentioned before, once the residential areas are set free, the Russian gov. is considering to level the industrial part of the city with the remaining troops in it.
I assume that's why they want to give them a chance to come out and to save their lives first.
Nothing says "I'm saving you" like an invasion and leveling cities.
So is your "friend" in Russia yet? He sure seems to know everything and have seen everything. I don't suppose he has bothered to text you any on-the-ground pics or videos?
No, he is still on the border. Safe, fed and not restrained to go around.
I don't have any pictures from him, it was prohibited to take any, while being besieged.
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