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Old 04-01-2022, 12:21 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Interesting comment and glad to hear they are doing well, but Chenens were Russia citizens before, during and after the war. A destroyed Chechnya was still in Russia.
A destroyed and landlocked Ukraine would become a "ward of the state" of western civilization.

The more I am looking at the bigger picture ( other than the battles sites,) the more I am coming to this conclusion.

I mean Ukraine's economy was not doing too well to begin with - it was prompted by Western loans, and now - looking at the destroyed cities ( basically flattened in the Eastern part,) and blown-up storages across the country ( be that oil of food storages) - I have no idea how it's going to recuperate at this point financially speaking.

( Did the cooks of this current government ever took it in consideration, while planning this war with Russia as a price of joining NATO? I doubt. Or if they did, they thought somehow that the West was going to pay for the full reconstruction?

As I said, if I were a Ukrainian, I'd rather have a president with solid economics/jurisprudence background who might ( or might not) have an adviser with artistic/psychology background.

Or an adviser with a solid understanding of the geopolitics/economy. Then, I guess, the president can be a comedian.

But if they are BOTH the artsy types with their cadence during the most trying times, I'd be VERY worried.

May be that's just me, being a boring person that I am.



And now - something about Ramzan Kadyrov of Chechnya.

Not my favorite person, obviously, but there is something interesting I hear from one of my favorite Ukrainian observers.

From what she is saying, is that "Ukrainians have a lot of actors/popular bloggers that joined the war, and they rally the Ukrainian public, reporting directly from the front lines and inspiring the public, calling it to go till the victory.

In Russia everything is quiet on that front - they simply look at their government for now, waiting for decisions to be made on their part.

The only person who is playing this role, rallying the Russians "to fight till the victorious end ( apparently no matter what the government will decide,) is... Ramzan Kadyrov.

And then she goes through all his public statements/appearances during this war, to confirm her point.



Truth is stranger than fiction as they say.

Last edited by erasure; 04-01-2022 at 12:35 PM..

 
Old 04-01-2022, 12:33 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Maybe, but the Ukriainians are reporting they have taken most of the area back



# 1 - I never payed attention at the actions on the "Kiev's front lines," - what towns exactly were taken over and which ones were not, because to me the whole attack/takeover of Kiev seemed strange to say the least, if unrealistic all together.

I mean how do you fight the urban warfare in the major city, with tonnes of civilians around and those tall buildings.
# 2 - obviously I don't believe the Ukrainian propaganda and whatever lines they are drawing there.

The towns they might be claiming now back could not be under Russian control to begin with, plus Russians often pass some cities, don't even fight for them. (They have their all calculations of what they consider strategically important and what not. )


Now DONBASS front lines/Mariupol - yes, that's what I am watching closely.

And the Southern Littoral too.

That's essential.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 12:42 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,612,851 times
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Russian separatists created the problem in the Donbas regions. They were the aggressors because they didn't want to be part of the Ukraine, but half the citizens were not separatists. It's no wonder that Azov and other groups fought back against these Russian aggressors, and for every Russian separatist hurt in those clashes, there were those on the Ukraine side hurt as well. So the argument holds no water, it's crapola.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:07 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
Russian separatists created the problem in the Donbas regions. They were the aggressors because they didn't want to be part of the Ukraine, but half the citizens were not separatists. It's no wonder that Azov and other groups fought back against these Russian aggressors, and for every Russian separatist hurt in those clashes, there were those on the Ukraine side hurt as well. So the argument holds no water, it's crapola.

No hon, that's what typical propaganda lines would want you to believe.
In reality, it's the puppet government in Kiev that created the problem in 2014.

( Because before that, Donbass was remaining part of Ukraine just fine.)


Look again at the map - see who was rallying in that "Maidan," who was unhappy with the democratically-elected president?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ests-map-k.jpg


It was not Donbass and it was not South-East in general, because they VOTED for him.

But once the Western Ukrainians ( the Nationalists) removed the legitimate president and put their puppet instead backed by the Western powers, why do you think the Donbass ( and other South-Eastern parts of the country) were supposed to automatically accept this development?



So that's who really created the problem for "one and united Ukraine," not the Donbass.


And this is the source of today's war.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:18 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,216,625 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA View Post
ok lemme splain....there is a wide swath of ex-ukr current russian territory in between, so its more than a 25 mile jaunt. Ukr at present does not have precision guided weapons capable of making such a hit (a sam 7 etc and stinger or even a jav need a lock on, they are not GPS or sat guided.)


so the narrative switched early this am to helo lanched...really? it would be AT LEAST a 50 mile one way trip - most likely far far more to keep the asset out of russian AA reach, AND back, to just fire dumb rockets from a Mi-?? helo.

Perhaps. But reference the Doolittle Raid in WWII where the US essentially ran a one-way mission and sacrificed bombers in order to cause minor damage bombing Tokyo in 1942. The US knew it would carry a high cost wand cause no signifcant damage but felt it important to let Japanese know their own soil could be vulnerable. Similarly, Ukr could have flown the choppers with no intent them making it back, considering the loss of assets and possibly pilots to be worth the psychological impact of hitting Russia on Russian soil.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:23 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,216,625 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Well it looks like there are no more Russians in the Kyiv Oblast according to this reporting

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/st...28906513653765

From comments section
This doesn't sound like re-positioning...this sounds like the Russian lines simply collapsed north Kyiv.

Maybe so, but a sudden and complete withdrawal is also the behaviour I would expect to see before use of chemical weapons or a tactical nuke.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,851 posts, read 4,529,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
No hon, that's what typical propaganda lines would want you to believe.

no darling, that is what typical soviet propaganda lines would tell you that typical propaganda lines are saying.


Russian seps actions in the donbass have 8 years of UN et al monitoring. The only people not buying it are well, no body. even you buy it which is why you make the other side....


Its ok, we still like you.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:37 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA View Post
no darling, that is what typical soviet propaganda lines would tell you that typical propaganda lines are saying.


Russian seps actions in the donbass have 8 years of UN et al monitoring. The only people not buying it are well, no body. even you buy it which is why you make the other side....


Its ok, we still like you.

I understand, the Washington Post must be working for Putin, because it's their map.


( But it's OK, we still like reading it.)
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:47 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,612,851 times
Reputation: 9918
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
No hon, that's what typical propaganda lines would want you to believe.
In reality, it's the puppet government in Kiev that created the problem in 2014.

Look again at the map - see who was rallying in that "Maidan," who was unhappy with the democratically-elected president?
So that's who really created the problem for "one and united Ukraine," not the Donbass.
And this is the source of today's war.
No, erasure hun, you have it backwards.

The current Zelenskyy regieme is the democratically elected one. Notice the Ukrainians are not waving flags welcoming the Russkies, they are blasting them. The puppet Russian regieme is gone.

Russia and Putin were behind the separatists and supplied them weapons, helped them strategize, planted Russian soldiers in their ranks, and spies everywhere.
It is because of Putin and his ego that these separatists felt empowered to try to leave Ukraine. It is the Russian war mindset that created this problem.
So no, erasure, hun, you have it backwards.
The russians are not welcome. The Russians are murdering aggressors. And any killing of Russian military in Ukraine is justified. And any killing of Ukrainians is not justified, because it is their country, not Putin's. And that is why the west is behind Ukraine, and is ostracizing Russia from modern western society and will continue to do so for decades to come. We believe in real democracy, something Russians like Putin can't understand, they've had such a small taste of it in their lifetimes. But Zelenskyy and modern day Ukrainians get it, they understand democracy. Do you erasure? I'm not sure you do, else you would support it.
And even if, to play devil's advocate, your fantasy storyline of history was true, guess what? It still doesn't justify going into Ukraine all over the country and destroying cities and murdering people. You CAN'T justify it, see? You just can't. The only way you could claim this false narrative and have anyone believe it would be if Russia only invaded Donbas. But that isn't what they've done, is it? No. They're murdering all over the country.
 
Old 04-01-2022, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,851 posts, read 4,529,826 times
Reputation: 6707
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I understand, the Washington Post must be working for Putin, because it's their map.


( But it's OK, we still like reading it.)

you can actually make a case for that one...
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