Kyiv or Kiev? Why two names for the same city? (regime, government)
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Yeah, I've notice the morons on the news suddenly pronouncing it differently than it has been pronounced my entire life. It drives me insane. Looks like the liberals are trying to change other languages in addition to English.
Kyiv is the official Ukrainian transliteration into English of the name of this Ukrainian city.
Only a pathetic tool would think it's a 'liberal' thing.
Are you also triggereed by the dropping of the article in the country's name (since you probably don't know what an 'article' is, 'the Ukraine' has largely become just 'Ukraine' since the dissolution of the USSR.
Oh, and you've just noticed this 'suddenly'? Be advised that your ongoing obliviousness to something hardly makes it new. November 2019:
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Twitter users were left absolutely stumped upon hearing diplomats Bill Taylor and George Kent pronounce the city as 'Keev' rather than the more typically pronunciation of 'Key-ev' during their testimony on Capitol Hill.
But it turns out their pronunciation is authentic to the Eastern European country, and real Ukrainians pronounce their capital as 'Keev', as the diplomats did.
No, it's not Biden's fault. It's the fault of the idiots that keep wanting to redefine language. It's a "latte" sort of thing. For some reason some people think it is high style to keep on redefining words and pronunciation. In some cases it is political, in some cases social, and in some cases just for the hell of it.
I am against all the PC nonsense. But in this case it was Ukraine sort of thumbing their nose at Russia and how their way of calling the city became the norm around much of the world. I have no issue with that. My guess is even after Russia seizes control most of the world will still honor Ukraine's wish on this.
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
I don't see any English speaker going out of his or her way to pronounce every Spanish derived word the way Spaniards pronounce it. I don't see any English speaker going out of his or her way to Pronounce every French derived word the way it is pronounced in France. Same goes for German, the Nordic languages, Portuguese, etc. So what is the deal with the sudden choice to play Ukrainian on the newscasts? My guess is that it's simply more latte-sipping woke balderdash. There is no practical reason to change your English pronunciation because you think it is cool. Otherwise, I suppose we'd all be speaking with a French accent since it's such a cool and suave language.
There actually is a big push for people with Spanish names to be called they way its said in Spanish. If you live anywhere that has a sizeable Hispanic population you will see this. Athletes, news casters, etc are called by their name how it is said in Spanish. [/quote]
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
For God's sake, we don't even pronounce the word "burrito" properly in English (unless you are a Spanish speaker as well). Does anyone make a big thing about that?
I am a white guy who happens to speak Spanish. So I notice this kind of thing. And now I live in the part of the country where no one says Spanish words correctly. That is fine but I do notice it.
Kyiv is the official Ukrainian transliteration into English of the name of this Ukrainian city.
Only a pathetic tool would think it's a 'liberal' thing.
Are you also triggereed by the dropping of the article in the country's name (since you probably don't know what an 'article' is, 'the Ukraine' has largely become just 'Ukraine' since the dissolution of the USSR.
Oh, and you've just noticed this 'suddenly'? Be advised that your ongoing obliviousness to something hardly makes it new. November 2019:
PS -
Does Bombay/Mumbai give you fits, too? How about Peking/Beijing? Gdansk/Danzig?
Sorry, monsieur, I speakie English and will continue to do so (Key-ev) until you learn how to pronounce burrito properly.
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Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
I am a white guy who happens to speak Spanish. So I notice this kind of thing. And now I live in the part of the country where no one says Spanish words correctly. That is fine but I do notice it.
And so do I (speak Spanish). And Norwegian (some). And French (a bit). And I notice those things too. But my point with this particular issue is that it is ridiculously hypocritical and there has to be a reason the newscasters suddenly decided to pronounce that word differently. My guess is that it has something to do with PC nonsense or the leftist's quest to constantly annoy everyone around them. Like I said, we do not pronounce half the English language words (that's not much of an exaggeration) the way they are pronounced in their native languages that we borrowed those words from. This has all the scent of another little bit of PC culture.
And so do I (speak Spanish). And Norwegian (some). And French (a bit). And I notice those things too. But my point with this particular issue is that it is ridiculously hypocritical and there has to be a reason the newscasters suddenly decided to pronounce that word differently. My guess is that it has something to do with PC nonsense or the leftist's quest to constantly annoy everyone around them. Like I said, we do not pronounce half the English language words (that's not much of an exaggeration) the way they are pronounced in their native languages that we borrowed those words from. This has all the scent of another little bit of PC culture.
I googled Kyiv under news stories from a few years back. Its been called that for a while. I guess I did not notice it until this invasion was about to happen. And this is not just the pronunciation but the spelling. I would imagine if you are Ukrainian living the US and see the Russian way of spelling your cities name it would eat at you. What if Washington DC existed when the British controlled the area it was called Royal City. And the UK kept calling it that do this day. It would bother Americans. Sure would bother me.
I could see how one would think this is more PC culture run amok. But in this case its not.
I sort of likened it to similar to my hometown of St. Louis, founded by the French, but eventually taken over by English-speaking Americans. The French pronounced it 'Loo-ee', but in English, it's 'Loo-is'. The name 'Louis' exists in both languages, with the different pronunciations. Neither pronunciation is wrong, but the language of the inhabitants changed, and so did the pronunciation of the city name.
I could see how one would think this is more PC culture run amok. But in this case its not.
Mmmm. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point. I think it is a "freedom fry" sort of deal.
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Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
I googled Kyiv under news stories from a few years back. Its been called that for a while. I guess I did not notice it until this invasion was about to happen. And this is not just the pronunciation but the spelling. I would imagine if you are Ukrainian living the US and see the Russian way of spelling your cities name it would eat at you. What if Washington DC existed when the British controlled the area it was called Royal City. And the UK kept calling it that do this day. It would bother Americans. Sure would bother me.
Okay, look at it like this, since you speak Spanish. Let's say you decide to go to Argentina (the dialect of Spanish is quite pleasant there) and you hear the locals mispronouncing an English word regularly. Would that bother in in the least? It wouldn't bother me. My Peruvian ex-wife constantly mispronounced words. But she got the point across and it didn't bother me.
Another point would be that I'll bet it is actually nearly impossible for the typical English speaker to pronounce that word like it is actually pronounced in Ukrainian. It's rare to even hear a fluent Spanish speaker, whose native language is English, who doesn't have a rather ugly and pronounced "gringo accent" when speaking Spanish.
Yeah, I've notice the morons on the news suddenly pronouncing it differently than it has been pronounced my entire life.
It's not about you or your entire life. It's about the proper pronunciation of a place name.
You must have excreted bricks when the English speaking world began calling Mumbai by its correct name, instead of Bombay, or Kolkata instead of Calcutta. Likewise Beijing vs. Peking. Myanmar vs. Burma, and its capital city, Yangon, formerly Rangoon. Etc.
People who are correct aren't morons.
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Originally Posted by censusdata
George Dubya Bush would figure out how to say Kiev with three syllables.
Thank you for that giggle. This thread needed it.
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
This has all the scent of another little bit of PC culture.
It's not about you or your entire life. It's about the proper pronunciation of a place name.
You must have excreted bricks when the English speaking world began calling Mumbai by its correct name, instead of Bombay, or Kolkata instead of Calcutta. Likewise Beijing vs. Peking. Myanmar vs. Burma, and its capital city, Yangon, formerly Rangoon. Etc.
People who are correct aren't morons.
Thank you for that giggle. This thread needed it.
Wrong again!
Well aren't you special. After half a century of pronouncing a word a certain way, you now feel emboldened enough to call those who did all that pronouncing "incorrect" and the newfangled way of pronouncing it (in English) is suddenly the thing.
By the way, how do you pronounce "burrito"? I'll bet not the way it is pronounced in Spanish. Does that make you incorrect as well? Or does it just make you an English speaker rather than a Spanish speaker?
Oh, and I don't give a hoot about that other stuff you are citing there. That isn't a linguistics issue. It's not a pronunciation thing. Like I said, if you want to speak Ukrainian or Spanish or French, etc, the way native speakers do, you are not only going to have to learn the grammar and vocabulary of the language, but you are going to have to learn to make sounds you never make in English. Which most adult speakers cannot physically do. The sound of English is too hard-coded into their brains. There are tons of fluent non-native speakers of all languages who cannot duplicate the sounds properly and properly sound very foreign to native speakers.
Meanwhile, I will continue pronouncing Kiev the way I've heard it pronounced all my life. I see no reason to suddenly change it even if it does enrage you. (yeah, and if, as you say it is not all about me, then why are you making it all about me?) My pronunciation is in no way hurting you. And I'd doubt it would hurt any Ukrainian I'd ever meet. They can't or don't pronounce English properly and I understand that perfectly and am not offended by it. I cannot or do not pronounce their language properly. I'm sure they understand that as well. And it probably doesn't matter at all to them, because what you said is absolutely true: it's not all about me or the way I pronounce foreign words. They know that. But you seem to be hurt by it.
But ALL of that is beside the point. The point is, or question is... why now? Why a sudden change in pronunciation? What's the point? It doesn't technically matter how you pronounce it in the whole scheme of things. But... why the sudden change? That was the OP's query. And I say it is a woke change. My opinion. Your opinion is different. The world keeps turning.
I guess Kyiv, pronounced "keev" is the English translation of the Ukrainian name of the city. And Kiev is the English translation of the Russian name of the city.
English speakers may not call the Italian city Firenze, but we don't call it Florentsiya, either.
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