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Old 02-25-2022, 11:44 AM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,834 posts, read 6,543,563 times
Reputation: 13331

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
You would risk world war to protect Latvia? You would go to Europe yourself and send your children to certain death for Latvia? I understand NATO and the importance of a strong western alliance, so did Trump when he pushed the NATO countries to pay more for defense. I just disagree that we should of allowed Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia to join NATO in 2004, it threatens everything NATO stands for if we don’t act. Why did we expand NATO so far East to include countries that add little military support to strengthen NATO but that can trap us into a war?
Putin would risk nuclear war to assimilate a minor border state that would gain them little? He'd only take that piece if he thought he could get away with it. The Ukraine is the big prize here.

 
Old 02-25-2022, 11:48 AM
 
8,957 posts, read 2,558,130 times
Reputation: 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
Putin would risk nuclear war to assimilate a minor border state that would gain them little? He'd only take that piece if he thought he could get away with it. The Ukraine is the big prize here.
It's just the first prize.

He took part of it when Obama was in office and Biden was the VP. He got away with it, so the next time he had a weak US president in office, this time Biden's handlers, he took the rest.

He'll get away with it, and Biden's handlers will still be in office for quite a while, so he'd be foolish to not take advantage of that golden opportunity in order to take even more.

Europe can't afford to stop him because they are reliant on buying his gas, the US won't do anything because they are led by pathetic weak minded people.

China will get in on the action as well, they'll definitely take Taiwan.

North Korea might even get in on it by finally invading the South.


When you have pathetic, weak minded people in power, that's your best opportunity to make gains.
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:08 PM
 
705 posts, read 445,338 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I don't think we should even wait. If something isn't done soon, Russia is going to physically connect to the Kaliningrad Oblast again.

If I was president here is what I would do. I would announce that we have intelligence that a Russian invasion of Poland and Lithuania is imminent. True or not, I would make the announcement, and rally up NATO to send at least a million troops to Poland and Lithuania, with the borders with Kaliningrad being the center of operations. I would announce that the troops are just there to make certain that Russia doesn't invade any NATO countries. I expect that Putin's response would be, whatever, and he would just continue with his plans to annex the Ukraine.

As soon as all the troops were in position I would change the mission from defensive to offensive and launch a Pearl Harbour style surprise air attack on the Russian military bases in Kaliningrad and hit them with everything we have. Then follow that up with an invasion simultaneously from both Poland and Lithuania with the goal of controlling the entire Kaliningrad Oblast with in 24 hours. There is very little Putin could do about it. His troops are already spread thin in the Ukraine and there would be no way to get them to Kaliningrad. Russia is a powerful country, but they can't fight the entire world.

Next I would expel most of the Russians from Kaliningrad, and turn it into one giant NATO base complete with missiles pointed at Moscow, to keep Putin under control.
Is that you Trump?
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:22 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,904,670 times
Reputation: 116153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryvete View Post
What would be the strategic objectives of such a conflict? Simply driving out the enemy from the nations in question or pushing all the way to Moscow, occupying the nation, and replacing the government with a Western friendly alternative? Good luck is all I have to say with the latter. The last time anyone was able to successfully invade and control the Russian region was the Mongols back in the Middle Ages when Russia was just a loose federation of tribal groups west of the Volga River.

I think Ukraine pledging martial neutrality and potentially being allowed to keep its government is the best option right now.
Please, let's not get too carried away with the imagination. It would be absurd to try to take over Russia and install a "friendly" dealer/government. The strategic objective would be merely a "corrective action" to expel Russia from Ukraine.

But Ukraine isn't a NATO member, so I don't know what the reasoning would be to get NATO involved.
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,904,670 times
Reputation: 116153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I don't think we should even wait. If something isn't done soon, Russia is going to physically connect to the Kaliningrad Oblast again.

If I was president here is what I would do. I would announce that we have intelligence that a Russian invasion of Poland and Lithuania is imminent. True or not, I would make the announcement, and rally up NATO to send at least a million troops to Poland and Lithuania, with the borders with Kaliningrad being the center of operations. I would announce that the troops are just there to make certain that Russia doesn't invade any NATO countries. I expect that Putin's response would be, whatever, and he would just continue with his plans to annex the Ukraine.

As soon as all the troops were in position I would change the mission from defensive to offensive and launch a Pearl Harbour style surprise air attack on the Russian military bases in Kaliningrad and hit them with everything we have. Then follow that up with an invasion simultaneously from both Poland and Lithuania with the goal of controlling the entire Kaliningrad Oblast with in 24 hours. There is very little Putin could do about it. His troops are already spread thin in the Ukraine and there would be no way to get them to Kaliningrad. Russia is a powerful country, but they can't fight the entire world.

Next I would expel most of the Russians from Kaliningrad, and turn it into one giant NATO base complete with missiles pointed at Moscow, to keep Putin under control.
With all due respect, this is alarmist. It's thinking like this that causes situations to spiral completely out of control, even worse than they already are. Kennedy's military advisers were all pushing for war with Russia over the Cuban missile crisis. Thank heaven the President had the sense not to listen to them!
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:31 PM
 
30,166 posts, read 11,795,579 times
Reputation: 18684
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
A nuke is a nuke....if Putin crosses that line....I don't want to know what kind of world we live in.
A nuke is not a nuke. That is why there are tactical and strategic. There are limited issues with radiation and damage with tactical nukes. So what would the response be those if they were used in Eastern Europe?

The world we live in is one I have always expected would happen eventually. You have a mad man with nukes threatening to use them. Only a matter of time when they are used in a devastating fashion in war. Probably how the human race ends. I figured it would not happen in my lifetime but who knows.
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:34 PM
 
1,345 posts, read 474,107 times
Reputation: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Please, let's not get too carried away with the imagination. It would be absurd to try to take over Russia and install a "friendly" dealer/government. The strategic objective would be merely a "corrective action" to expel Russia from Ukraine.

But Ukraine isn't a NATO member, so I don't know what the reasoning would be to get NATO involved.
How I'm looking at it is a choice between being a client state of the EU and NATO or being a vassal to Russia. Both aren't appealing options though one could argue the long term detriments of the former when looking at the sociopolitical challenges facing Europe now thanks to the Open Society initiative and other crazy experimental shenanigans

Again, I think military neutrality with potentially an autonomous or at least semi-autonomous government is preferable.
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:39 PM
 
30,166 posts, read 11,795,579 times
Reputation: 18684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I don't think we should even wait. If something isn't done soon, Russia is going to physically connect to the Kaliningrad Oblast again.

If I was president here is what I would do. I would announce that we have intelligence that a Russian invasion of Poland and Lithuania is imminent. True or not, I would make the announcement, and rally up NATO to send at least a million troops to Poland and Lithuania, with the borders with Kaliningrad being the center of operations. I would announce that the troops are just there to make certain that Russia doesn't invade any NATO countries. I expect that Putin's response would be, whatever, and he would just continue with his plans to annex the Ukraine.

As soon as all the troops were in position I would change the mission from defensive to offensive and launch a Pearl Harbour style surprise air attack on the Russian military bases in Kaliningrad and hit them with everything we have. Then follow that up with an invasion simultaneously from both Poland and Lithuania with the goal of controlling the entire Kaliningrad Oblast with in 24 hours. There is very little Putin could do about it. His troops are already spread thin in the Ukraine and there would be no way to get them to Kaliningrad. Russia is a powerful country, but they can't fight the entire world.

Next I would expel most of the Russians from Kaliningrad, and turn it into one giant NATO base complete with missiles pointed at Moscow, to keep Putin under control.
There is a couple of things Putin could do. Launch tactical nukes on Poland and Lithuania and ask Xi for Chinese reinforcements.

Your idea pretty much guarantees WWIII. We may be heading there regardless but we already started a war over lies about WMD's. We don't need another more dangerous war based on lies.
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:42 PM
 
6,343 posts, read 2,898,603 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball86 View Post
There are currently three former soviet republics in Nato. Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. What is to stop Putin from invading those countries with what's going on in Ukraine?

Would we really go in to a nuclear war over Estonia if Russia decided to invade them?
NATO collectively is much stronger than Russia. We wouldn't need nukes to defend NATO countries from Russia.
 
Old 02-25-2022, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Occupant of USA.
938 posts, read 424,288 times
Reputation: 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
President Biden's (and the liberals) energy stance is a threat to National security.
Fixed it for you. You’re welcome.
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