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As someone who installed flooring for 45 years, I can tell you there are many learn-on-the-job occupations.
Flooring, roofing, drywall, HVAC, plumbing. The ones that require a license down the road can be learned on the job, then you can go after a license. Most building trades are crying for help. $1,000 a week for a helper is not uncommon.
Unusual. Im in NJ. Just did a trade school tour and they proudly told us all 12 of the 12 in the electrician program had jobs waiting. Pay was 17 to 19 an hour plus benefits. 1K would be overtime.
Sorry but philosophy degrees and similar degrees are nonsense. Your son being successful doesn't change that. I'm sure there are some kids with STEM degrees who are failures as well but that doesn't change the fact that overall they are valuable and degrees in liberal arts nonsense aren't. Someone doesn't need to spend 6 figures to study philosophy and end up with no real world skills from it. If you want to study philosophy you can do so nearly for free between books and the internet.
Anecdotes don't prove anything. Look you love your son and you're proud of him which I understand. But the government should not be making these kinds of loans because normsdad on citydata's son is successful with a degree that for most people is a total waste of money. They should be making loans the way any other loans are made- using actuaries to determine the appropriate risk levels and in this case future earning potential. That's it. No insurance company in the world would sell life insurance to a 98 year old for the same monthly rate as a healthy 25 year old. They would go under a short amount of time. But surely there is a 98 year old out there today who will outlive some healthy 25 year old. It doesn't prove anything overall. It's an anecdote and not what insurance companies should use to conduct future business, same as with your son's degree.
I love baseball and its history. But nobody in there right mind would lend me 6 figures to take classes on it. But imagine if they did. I'd be out there ten years later complaining i can't get a good job, i can't pay my loans poor me blah blah blah. But change that to art history and anyone with a pulse who barely got through high school can get a big loan from the government for it which is absurd.
The government lending huge amounts of money to any 18 year old who wants it for any kind of degree with why tuition is so high. If the college themselves wouldn't lend 100k to a kid to get some nonsense degree that tells you all you need to know.
This country also needs a lot more trade schools.
I agree and have informed Moth Jr that it will be STEM or bust.
I think for the longest time liberal arts degrees were just fine. There were less people in college and more companies willing to train in-house. I used to have book about banks that said they were once the haven for English majors from decent schools.
I think that was changing by the early 80s. Earning a degree in History or Literature is an impressive feat and the process will insure that you are educated. But it is not marketable like STEM degrees.
Unusual. Im in NJ. Just did a trade school tour and they proudly told us all 12 of the 12 in the electrician program had jobs waiting. Pay was 17 to 19 an hour plus benefits. 1K would be overtime.
I was paying helpers $20-25 an hour when I retired ten years ago. I have a friend who is starting people off the street at $25 an hour to learn construction jobs. No unions here because most would have to take a pay cut to get union wages.
Unusual. Im in NJ. Just did a trade school tour and they proudly told us all 12 of the 12 in the electrician program had jobs waiting. Pay was 17 to 19 an hour plus benefits. 1K would be overtime.
Can't believe how low trades are paid in the USA. My son graduated into a trade 20 years ago. At THAT time, he had a job waiting for him at $25/hour. He is making much more now.
An apprentice electrician starts at $25 now, graduating up to $40.34 average after 4 years when he gets his journeyman.
You know a huge cost of college now days is living expenses...colleges need to stop letting developers charge market rates for luxury apartments next to campuses.
When I went to Ohio State, I lived in an old house w/ 5 other roommates for 3 years...each of us paid $250/month rent. The place was a run down mess but it was livable. In Columbus, many of those old houses have been knocked down and luxury style apts were put up in place...now these students are lucky if they can get a 2 bedroom for under $1000/month. That's $500/month each.
I agree and have informed Moth Jr that it will be STEM or bust.
I think for the longest time liberal arts degrees were just fine. There were less people in college and more companies willing to train in-house. I used to have book about banks that said they were once the haven for English majors from decent schools.
I think that was changing by the early 80s. Earning a degree in History or Literature is an impressive feat and the process will insure that you are educated. But it is not marketable like STEM degrees.
Before i read your last paragraph I said to myself "sure 40 years ago" and then you mentioned it changing int the early 80s.
Today they're meaningless.
You know a huge cost of college now days is living expenses...colleges need to stop letting developers charge market rates for luxury apartments next to campuses.
When I went to Ohio State, I lived in an old house w/ 5 other roommates for 3 years...each of us paid $250/month rent. The place was a run down mess but it was livable. In Columbus, many of those old houses have been knocked down and luxury style apts were put up in place...now these students are lucky if they can get a 2 bedroom for under $1000/month. That's $500/month each.
most colleges aren't near luxury apartments.
No landlord with a brain is going to rent an apartment to a bunch of college kids at the normal rate because they know the apartment is going to get destroyed.
Before i read your last paragraph I said to myself "sure 40 years ago" and then you mentioned it changing int the early 80s.
Today they're meaningless.
Even 40 years ago, there were lots of articles regarding, "Is the Liberal Arts Dead?"
I suppose if one wants to go into teaching, journalism, etc, they can still work. But otherwise ...
Subsidize community college and trade schools, each state can make their own arrangements. A couple years of community college will ease the burden of getting a 4 year degree.
This, and no expensive private colleges the last 2 years, but much more affordable state public universities....the best way to get a college education and minimize debt.
most colleges aren't near luxury apartments.
No landlord with a brain is going to rent an apartment to a bunch of college kids at the normal rate because they know the apartment is going to get destroyed.
These are just a few of the plethora of upscale urban apts that have been built around Campus. Used to be run down old apt bldgs and houses...they were ugly as hell but cheap. With utilities, a student's living expenses would run maybe $500/month if they lived off campus. Now, an individual student's living expenses run $1500/month...that first one I posted...they tore down a 1950s apt bldg that had 16, 2 bedroom apts...rent for those apts were $475/month...so $237.50/month per student. That was in the 1990s. Now you see, they are stainless steel appliances, balconies, and all sorts of amenities. A college kids doesn't need all that.
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