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Looking back in time when did the relationship of the US and Russia start to get bad and got wore every year to where they are today?
Note I started to hear anti Russia when Trump got in and got worse every year.
Did the relationship of the US and Russia started to get bad when Trump got in and got worse over the years to when Biden got in than really got worse? Or was the relationship of the US and Russia started to get worse way before Trump got in?
If Trump was in power now well things may be different but it seems the relationship have been getting worse every year. There was not a day when Trump was in power I did not hear anti Russia.
I’m wondering if this relationship getting worse every year pushed Russia over the edge to now where they are enemies now.
I know in the late 80s, 90s and 2000s the US and Russia where not friends but they where not enemies. Now they are enemies and the cold war is here all over again.
Relations with Russia were always cool at best. When Russia exploded their first nuclear bomb in Aug 1949 the US should have gone in there and bombed Russia back to the Stone Age. We wouldn have been staring down a nuclear threat for 70 years if we had.
You keep looking at it through the wrong lens. This is a turf war between crime bosses. Whether the local street dealers get forced to join or choose to join one of the warring bosses, the other boss is pissed either way about being muscled.
And the folks joining voluntarily got money dangled in front of them. What they didn't know, but have figured out since 2015ish, is that money doesn't heat your home, cook your food or power your transportation....the oil/LNG that money buys does. That gives the person controlling the spigot power that money cannot buy...if he doesn't feel like selling.
NATO has been doing on a slower, larger scale for 30 years what Putin has been doing to Ukraine for the last week or so....invading, encircling and eventually laying siege to their opponent until they are forced to surrender and accept their terms. You can dress it up any way you like, but Russia has craptons of oil, LNG, coal and uranium...and the global green agenda needs all of it, but they can't keep having this annoying gadfly controlling it with impunity. They need to have green energy, clean power optics at home, and they need grubby Russia and Kazakhstan to do the dirty power stuff that actually keeps all their countries running, but they need it cheaper and more reliable, without having to kiss that commie tyrant's rear end. You gotta make Greta Thunberg happy, but you also need to heat your home in the winter. The EU quite simply NEEDS Russia, and that need pisses them off something fierce.
And here we are, 30 years later. Minus Belarus, Ukraine and Finland....we have walked NATO right to his front door. All wars are about land and resources. We've been waging one such war versus Russia since 1993. So now he is counterattacking because the power dynamic of petroleum based energy allows him to. Not Ukraine's fault and Putin is awful, but this is way more effect than it is cause.
But I don’t think NATO was planning all along to get many countries to join NATO to than start war with Russia to take down Putin and put some one in power that is pro US and have the energy run by US companies.
It is not a war the US can win no matter how big the military is.
The US could have military that is billion times bigger and still not win. If you look at Russian culture if Russia fears it is going to not win or military is close to Moscow they will just nuke the US. That mean Russia and the US is done. Well the elites are underground in underground tunnels and everyone else is gone.
The NATO just wants countries that are pro west and not pro Russia.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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There seems to be an extensions of Cancel Culture against White Conservatives where Putin has become the figurehead for the traditional White hetero male. If it were Russia vs France I could understand that. But Ukraine is literally the Neo Nazi capital of the world. Just because their president happens to be a Jew doesn't change the fact that today's Ukraine nationalist started out as proud Nazi collaborators whose grandfathers went around murdering Jews. Millions of Russians died defeating Nazis, Russia even offered up land in Siberia as a Jewish homeland.
Again, I don't defend Russia's full blown invasion. But I'm not going to close my eyes and ears and pretend like some strange crap isn't going on. The fact that the jingoism is being most embraced by the left is shocking to me as I became a Democrat after the GOP's Iraq War lies.
Looking back in time when did the relationship of the US and Russia start to get bad and got wore every year to where they are today?
Note I started to hear anti Russia when Trump got in and got worse every year.
Did the relationship of the US and Russia started to get bad when Trump got in and got worse over the years to when Biden got in than really got worse? Or was the relationship of the US and Russia started to get worse way before Trump got in?
If Trump was in power now well things may be different but it seems the relationship have been getting worse every year. There was not a day when Trump was in power I did not hear anti Russia.
I’m wondering if this relationship getting worse every year pushed Russia over the edge to now where they are enemies now.
I know in the late 80s, 90s and 2000s the US and Russia where not friends but they where not enemies. Now they are enemies and the cold war is here all over again.
Look, the entire world doesn't revolve around Donald Trump. Some supporters' worlds may revolve around him, but for the rest of us he is another ex-President, afforded the praise and or criticism heaped upon ex-Presidents. We don't need every discussion to begin and end with Trump.
Having said that, assuming this isn't another fanboy "I wish Trump were still president" post, let's get to your original question. You think the relationship between the US and Russia started faltering when Trump "got in". So let me spin it back to you, when do you think the US/Russia relationship would have been characterized as "good"? What leads you to believe its "worse" now. What's our benchmark here?
Looking back in time when did the relationship of the US and Russia start to get bad and got wore every year to where they are today?
1867?
The high point of US-Russia relations was the Alaska purchase. Which only happened because Russia lost the Crimean war and though (rightly) that Russian Alaska would be too hard to defend from the UK(i.e. Canada)
It all went downhill after the Iraq war; because up until that point, the Russian public was generally pro-America and pro-West. And even Putin in the early 2000s was relatively close with America. Iraq tarnished the view of the American government around the world, and the Russian people and government became significantly more skeptical of US foreign policy (rightfully so - you could argue). And then it all spiraled from there.
It can not be stated enough how much of a mistake the war in Iraq was.
Look, the entire world doesn't revolve around Donald Trump. Some supporters' worlds may revolve around him, but for the rest of us he is another ex-President, afforded the praise and or criticism heaped upon ex-Presidents. We don't need every discussion to begin and end with Trump.
Having said that, assuming this isn't another fanboy "I wish Trump were still president" post, let's get to your original question. You think the relationship between the US and Russia started faltering when Trump "got in". So let me spin it back to you, when do you think the US/Russia relationship would have been characterized as "good"? What leads you to believe its "worse" now. What's our benchmark here?
May be you young but I grow up in the 90s and 2000s and I did not hear from any major news spouting anti Russia. The US and Russia where even going up into space together. Russia or the US could said nope, you go up on your own rocket and stay the hell away from me.
I don’t remember any anti Russia or anti US like it is from Trump to now.
Well like I say they where not allies having champagne and listing to rock music but where not enemies.
Not friends but not enemies well some thing really happen. I’m guessing not fair trade or issues of resources came up causing problems than NATO moving to Russian border on top of it.
Unless you want to get into conspiracy that Hillary Clinton was giving money to Russian elite to take down Putin and having ruling class in Russia that is pro US.
Than it probably not fair trade or a resources issues than factor in NATO on top of it. If NATO was planning to cut Russia of and say we don’t need you any more than this would really not sit well with Putin.
It just so happen when Tump got in I started to hear non stop from every news media anti Russia that is why I say don’t know what happen.
But if it goes back to 2010 of not fair trade or trying to cut Russia of (we don’t need you has a trading partner or limiting your trade or bypassing you) or resources issues than the 2013/2014 problem and then NATO this would not sit well with Putin.
It all went downhill after the Iraq war; because up until that point, the Russian public was generally pro-America and pro-West. And even Putin in the early 2000s was relatively close with America. Iraq tarnished the view of the American government around the world, and the Russian people and government became significantly more skeptical of US foreign policy (rightfully so - you could argue). And then it all spiraled from there.
It can not be stated enough how much of a mistake the war in Iraq was.
Can you elaborate? Did the US not want Russia to go to war with Iraq? Did the US say to Russia stay the hell away from Iraq?
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
One big factor is the "great awokening", with American and other Western elite media going woke from around 2012, and taking the rest of the center/left establishment with them. To newly woke eyes, Putin came to be seen as the ultimate boogeyman.
Maybe not the ultimate but HOW is a KGB thug who invades a sovereign nation unprovoked anything but a boogeyman?
^ source is a convicted felon who served 11 years in prison for a Ponzi scheme that cheated investors out of $700 million and hiding $15 million in assets from regulators. This happened in 1999.
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