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I don't think most intelligent governments ever thought Trump's own government would allow him to start a nuclear war. I'm pretty sure there are standing orders to shoot the POTUS if he tries to send off nukes without someone telling him to, especially a loose cannon like him. They have to know that, too. The President in our time is less of a leader and more of a pop culture figure, and it's been that way for a while. Trump just embodied the idea more openly than did the career politician/lawyer types who came before him. Or after.
His unstable behavior did serve some as a distraction, though. While people were busy being shocked, angry, or confused at the stuff Trump came out with, it might have been a good cover for others to do what they wanted with nobody looking.
For some reason you went right to Trump using nukes.
Never said Trump would use nukes. That is a leftist's fear. What I said was Trump was unpredictable and he also talked tough (mean tweets and all). Sometimes that is good and sometimes it's not. This is why our enemies paused their aggression. They were unsure what ramifications would happen if they misstepped. Ramifications don't have to include nukes. It could involve ground troops, blockaides, air campaign, espionage and so much more. I'm NOT suggesting we use any of those. They just didn't know what might hit them, but they felt something would happen. They didn't have that concern under Obama & Biden.
Remember when Obama told Putin once he wins re-election he will have much more flexibility to help Putin?
Remember that idiotic red reset button?
There is a reason why Russia was active under Obama/Biden, then not under Trump and now active again under Biden. They simply do not fear certain leaders.
For some reason you went right to Trump using nukes.
Never said Trump would use nukes. That is a leftist's fear. What I said was Trump was unpredictable and he also talked tough (mean tweets and all). Sometimes that is good and sometimes it's not. This is why our enemies paused their aggression. They were unsure what ramifications would happen if they misstepped. Ramifications don't have to include nukes. It could involve ground troops, blockaides, air campaign, espionage and so much more. I'm NOT suggesting we use any of those. They just didn't know what might hit them, but they felt something would happen. They didn't have that concern under Obama & Biden.
Remember when Obama told Putin once he wins re-election he will have much more flexibility to help Putin?
Remember that idiotic red reset button?
There is a reason why Russia was active under Obama/Biden, then not under Trump and now active again under Biden. They simply do not fear certain leaders.
Don't hit yourself in the head. It will leave a mark.
No, that's not how the conversation went. Recap: Someone mentioned using nukes. I said it wouldn't matter which POTUS it was, if they were gonna use nukes, they would. YOU brought up the subject of Trump and people being afraid of him using nukes in your Post No. 150. I only responded to you with my thoughts.
Please do not attempt to drag me into your "leftists"/TDS conversations. That's a fun and popular and exciting pastime for many of you on this forum, I know, but it has nothing to do with me. I don't like any of 'em.
Don't hit yourself in the head. It will leave a mark.
No, that's not how the conversation went. Recap: Someone mentioned using nukes. I said it wouldn't matter which POTUS it was, if they were gonna use nukes, they would. YOU brought up the subject of Trump and people being afraid of him using nukes in your Post No. 150. I only responded to you with my thoughts.
Please do not attempt to drag me into your "leftists"/TDS conversations. That's a fun and popular and exciting pastime for many of you on this forum, I know, but it has nothing to do with me. I don't like any of 'em.
Here is the conversation between you and me. I think we may be talking past each other by referring to certain parts of posts along the way, not the entire post. It's easy to do when there is a broad conversation, but then one is discussing just one part of that and the other thinks they are referring to the entire thing. Just a challenge when not talking in person.
Let me clarify. I was referring to you specifically stating this situation would not be different based on who was President. I disagree with that. I disagree, because history shows us Putin did act up under Obama/Biden, then not under Trump, but now has acted up again under Biden. Those are simply the facts as they are. That is exactly what happened. They are not up for debate.
Now as to why this has played out this way. Here is my thought, which is an opinion. Many people, many on the left, were in major panic mode when Trump became President because they thought he would get us into a nuclear war. CNN lead with that topic on many shows. Social media was filled with these fears. Lefties crying thinking the world was going to end. It was a made up fear. Yes, Trump is unpredictable, but he did that on purpose. He even said why he was going to do it. He didn't want the enemy to know what his next move was. He said the previous administrations, Republican and Democrat, were telegraphing their limits. I think that was effective for Trump because Putin is all too happy to use his muscle when he feels confident he will not be in serious danger, but he wasn't sure how far Trump would push it so he just waited it out. Now Biden is back in command and he knows nothing happened last time he invaded a country under Obama/Biden, so he felt comfortable ding it again.
For some reason, probably your political leanings, you think the government had a plan to shoot Trump on the spot if he were to use nukes. That was actually a topic on CNN. That is part of the insane fear, panic and TDS the left has. They are already coming up with ways to off a sitting President over something that was not going to happen. As it turned out, Trump was the most peaceful President we had in decades.
Yes Trump is a blowhard. Yes Trump is an egomaniac. Yes Trump is an exaggerator. Yes Trump is an unpleasant fellow. No I would not want any young person to emulate Trump. HOWEVER, when it comes to running a business, a team or a country, I want someone who can get the job done. Personality is the least of my concerns. The left was more concerned about Trump's idiotic mean tweets, rather than focusing on actual international, national and economic policies. As a result, they got a nursing home vegetable elected and now look at the mess we are in.
Keep in mind I did not vote for Trump. I almost always vote 3rd party because I cannot stand these 2 major parties running things. They have a system developed where they can block out all 3rd party candidates from debates unless they reach a certain threshold. I am always doing my best to get alternate candidates over that threshold, so we can start challenging the 2 main parties to change their ways.
Post #148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
This. It wouldn't matter who was POTUS. As far as military decisions go, US Presidents are only figureheads who announce what the Joint Chiefs tell them they need to do. Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush2, Clinton...none of these people had/have the expertise to actually make military/international decisions on that level on their own. Bush1 is the last POTUS we had who even served in the military, and so he would have known better than any of them to listen to those who actually know.
Post #150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan A Smith
You are wrong on that. When other countries fear what may happen to them if they misstep or if they think they are dealing with an unpredictable U.S. President, they tend to back down and wait. When they see the United States as weak, they tend to act up. History is full of situations like this.
There is a reason why our enemies were very active under Obama/Biden, then mostly quiet under Trump and now active again under Biden. They feared Trump because they could not predict what he might do to them. They have no fear of Biden, because they know he is a weak idiot.
I am no fan of Trump, but the guy projected unpredictability and everyone thought he was going to get us into a nuclear war. Other countries backed down over that. Now his replacement may actually cause a nuclear war to come about because of his weakness. Our enemies are now pushing the envelope because they see an opportunity and they may go so far that we end up where the people with TDS thought Trump was going to bring us to.
Post #152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I don't think most intelligent governments ever thought Trump's own government would allow him to start a nuclear war. I'm pretty sure there are standing orders to shoot the POTUS if he tries to send off nukes without someone telling him to, especially a loose cannon like him. They have to know that, too. The President in our time is less of a leader and more of a pop culture figure, and it's been that way for a while. Trump just embodied the idea more openly than did the career politician/lawyer types who came before him. Or after.
His unstable behavior did serve some as a distraction, though. While people were busy being shocked, angry, or confused at the stuff Trump came out with, it might have been a good cover for others to do what they wanted with nobody looking.
Post #163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan A Smith
For some reason you went right to Trump using nukes.
Never said Trump would use nukes. That is a leftist's fear. What I said was Trump was unpredictable and he also talked tough (mean tweets and all). Sometimes that is good and sometimes it's not. This is why our enemies paused their aggression. They were unsure what ramifications would happen if they misstepped. Ramifications don't have to include nukes. It could involve ground troops, blockaides, air campaign, espionage and so much more. I'm NOT suggesting we use any of those. They just didn't know what might hit them, but they felt something would happen. They didn't have that concern under Obama & Biden.
Remember when Obama told Putin once he wins re-election he will have much more flexibility to help Putin?
Remember that idiotic red reset button?
There is a reason why Russia was active under Obama/Biden, then not under Trump and now active again under Biden. They simply do not fear certain leaders.
"Senate sources said on Saturday that Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky pinned blame for Russia’s invasion into Ukraine on Democrat President Joe Biden’s refusal to enact sanctions against Russia before Russia launched the invasion.
Zelensky told Senators that if the U.S. “had started sanctions months ago, there would not have been war.â€"
“Senate sources say..â€, is it a secret? I’m guessing Ron Johnson.
Here is the conversation between you and me. I think we may be talking past each other by referring to certain parts of posts along the way, not the entire post. It's easy to do when there is a broad conversation, but then one is discussing just one part of that and the other thinks they are referring to the entire thing. Just a challenge when not talking in person.
Let me clarify. I was referring to you specifically stating this situation would not be different based on who was President. I disagree with that. I disagree, because history shows us Putin did act up under Obama/Biden, then not under Trump, but now has acted up again under Biden. Those are simply the facts as they are. That is exactly what happened. They are not up for debate.
Now as to why this has played out this way. Here is my thought, which is an opinion. Many people, many on the left, were in major panic mode when Trump became President because they thought he would get us into a nuclear war. CNN lead with that topic on many shows. Social media was filled with these fears. Lefties crying thinking the world was going to end. It was a made up fear. Yes, Trump is unpredictable, but he did that on purpose. He even said why he was going to do it. He didn't want the enemy to know what his next move was. He said the previous administrations, Republican and Democrat, were telegraphing their limits. I think that was effective for Trump because Putin is all too happy to use his muscle when he feels confident he will not be in serious danger, but he wasn't sure how far Trump would push it so he just waited it out. Now Biden is back in command and he knows nothing happened last time he invaded a country under Obama/Biden, so he felt comfortable ding it again.
For some reason, probably your political leanings, you think the government had a plan to shoot Trump on the spot if he were to use nukes. That was actually a topic on CNN. That is part of the insane fear, panic and TDS the left has. They are already coming up with ways to off a sitting President over something that was not going to happen. As it turned out, Trump was the most peaceful President we had in decades.
Yes Trump is a blowhard. Yes Trump is an egomaniac. Yes Trump is an exaggerator. Yes Trump is an unpleasant fellow. No I would not want any young person to emulate Trump. HOWEVER, when it comes to running a business, a team or a country, I want someone who can get the job done. Personality is the least of my concerns. The left was more concerned about Trump's idiotic mean tweets, rather than focusing on actual international, national and economic policies. As a result, they got a nursing home vegetable elected and now look at the mess we are in.
Keep in mind I did not vote for Trump. I almost always vote 3rd party because I cannot stand these 2 major parties running things. They have a system developed where they can block out all 3rd party candidates from debates unless they reach a certain threshold. I am always doing my best to get alternate candidates over that threshold, so we can start challenging the 2 main parties to change their ways.
<snipped for brevity>
Bolded sentence No. 1: No, you are mistaken. I said that I think that is a possibility with ANY President, not just Trump, that if they go off half-cocked, someone in national security would take them out before they did any damage. It would not likely involve actually shooting them. My mistake before posting that off the cuff was not reading up on the details of the procedure of what would actually occur if a President needed to set off the nukes. The short version is that he could not just go ahead and do it with confirmation procedures in place, and the orders would have to be carried out, or not, by the military.
Because I'm not a big TV news person, I did not know that CNN and others actually feared Trump specifically would do this until you said so. I worked all my life in NYC, so I knew what Trump was, but I did not and do not despise him as a person. He is who he is. Like so many others, and probably himself, I believe he threw his hat in the ring for the attention it would bring him, because the first and foremost overriding feature about Donald Trump is that he loves the spotlight and the adoration of the crowds, but I would lay down good money that even he did not think he could get elected until he began to realize what a following he had by a contingent of America fed up with the same old same old politicians who said the same old same old crap. As I've said about fifty times on this forum, I was not in favor of his major opponent and did not vote for her, either. I would like to see a woman as president before I die, but never particularly that one. She was done the day she called a large percentage of the people she was campaigning to lead "deplorables", and she deserved to lose just for that, in my opinion.
Bolded sentence No. 2: We are in agreement. I have said as much a number of times on this very subforum. We need more parties, more candidates, more choices, and to stop trying to shove 330 million people into two boxes.
Bolded sentence No. 1: No, you are mistaken. I said that I think that is a possibility with ANY President, not just Trump, that if they go off half-cocked, someone in national security would take them out before they did any damage. It would not likely involve actually shooting them. My mistake before posting that off the cuff was not reading up on the details of the procedure of what would actually occur if a President needed to set off the nukes. The short version is that he could not just go ahead and do it with confirmation procedures in place, and the orders would have to be carried out, or not, by the military.
Because I'm not a big TV news person, I did not know that CNN and others actually feared Trump specifically would do this until you said so. I worked all my life in NYC, so I knew what Trump was, but I did not and do not despise him as a person. He is who he is. Like so many others, and probably himself, I believe he threw his hat in the ring for the attention it would bring him, because the first and foremost overriding feature about Donald Trump is that he loves the spotlight and the adoration of the crowds, but I would lay down good money that even he did not think he could get elected until he began to realize what a following he had by a contingent of America fed up with the same old same old politicians who said the same old same old crap. As I've said about fifty times on this forum, I was not in favor of his major opponent and did not vote for her, either. I would like to see a woman as president before I die, but never particularly that one. She was done the day she called a large percentage of the people she was campaigning to lead "deplorables", and she deserved to lose just for that, in my opinion.
Bolded sentence No. 2: We are in agreement. I have said as much a number of times on this very subforum. We need more parties, more candidates, more choices, and to stop trying to shove 330 million people into two boxes.
Let's just hope and pray someone in Russia takes Putin out before he can launch nukes. That's what we really need. I fear we are running out of time with that nutbag. I think he has full intention of starting a nuclear war before he dies.
I'm pretty sure there are standing orders to shoot the POTUS if he tries to send off nukes without someone telling him to, especially a loose cannon like him.
That's called treason and insurrection.
Commander in Chief means commander in Chief. The president doesn't have to listen to anyone, even a dementia patient like Biden.
Quote:
only the president can order the release of nuclear weapons
Let's just hope and pray someone in Russia takes Putin out before he can launch nukes. That's what we really need. I fear we are running out of time with that nutbag. I think he has full intention of starting a nuclear war before he dies.
Once again, we agree. I keep hoping the Putin problem will be resolved from the inside.
Yep, but there is a process. He doesn't just push a button and the weapons start flying as so many people seem to think.
I am saying if a loose-cannon or demented President was going to start a war that the Joint Chiefs and other national security bigs knew was devastating, he would be stopped. There wouldn't be any question of treason or insurrection, because no one outside a small circle would ever know of it.
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