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Did you EVER think someone would tell you that men can have babies and believe it?
Did you EVER think that someone would tell you that females have a penis and believe it?
Did you EVER think that a man who pretends to be a woman would be allowed to compete against other women in a sporting event? Because he says he is a woman and the regulations allow it?
And again: These issues are off-topic and have nothing to do with this thread. Are you seeking to be reported for consistently trying to hijack a thread? I generally don't interfere with the work of the assigned P&OC mods, but knowing I am a CD moderator and continuing to blatantly flaunt TOS violations in your replies to me is a curious behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Did you EVER think why the legislation is written a certain way?
Yes. I know why it is written the way it is written. You don't seem to, though, and from your odd non-responses and repetitive off-topic comments, I am pretty sure you are not a resource anyone would consult to interpret legislation.
It does make one wonder about the minds of people that choose to believe this sort of thing. Does THEIR mind think that way, that people will kill so easily if given the chance or the legality to do so? If murder in general were legal, would THEY merrily go out and kill someone and the only reason they hesitate to do so is because they might be punished? It seems as if that's the mindset.
If not, is their view of humanity so low that they believe EVERYONE ELSE is so easily ready to kill? It's odd.
I follow a lot of true crime, always have been interested it. There are some terrible people out there. But that doesn't mean that I believe that the majority people are ready to kill if given the chance with no legal consequences.
It makes one wonder. It's clearly not compassion for the unborn child, as they seem to have no compassion for the pregnant woman carrying the severely deformed or non-viable fetus. It's not religious belief, as again, compassion and non-judgementalism isn't present in their arguments. It's something else, something psychological, but I'm not sure what.
It's mostly regurgitation of talking points put out by organized far right wing anti-abortion crowd/activists.
I'm sure personal belief infuses and twists some of these talking points. A lot of the aforementioned talking points are not factual or are twisted in some way to suit the agenda.
It does make one wonder about the minds of people that choose to believe this sort of thing. Does THEIR mind think that way, that people will kill so easily if given the chance or the legality to do so? If murder in general were legal, would THEY merrily go out and kill someone and the only reason they hesitate to do so is because they might be punished? It seems as if that's the mindset.
If not, is their view of humanity so low that they believe EVERYONE ELSE is so easily ready to kill? It's odd.
I follow a lot of true crime, always have been interested it. There are some terrible people out there. But that doesn't mean that I believe that the majority people are ready to kill if given the chance with no legal consequences.
It makes one wonder. It's clearly not compassion for the unborn child, as they seem to have no compassion for the pregnant woman carrying the severely deformed or non-viable fetus. It's not religious belief, as again, compassion and non-judgementalism isn't present in their arguments. It's something else, something psychological, but I'm not sure what.
People turn dark and destructive fairly quickly without outside restraint (i.e., threat of punishment). My stating so does not make ME a violent person, it makes me a realistic student of history. A mere 24-hour power outage in New York in 1977 turned into a massive crime rampage. And that was in a major American city in the 70's, a fairly chill time. What is YOUR explanation of why people behaved like this when they COULD?
But that is a drop in the ocean compared to what people do to each other all around the world when they don't have to fear consequences.
But the thread is about legislation and setting a precedent, not necessarily about what people are capable of and to what degree they'd breach their own humanity if given the chance, although that point is not completely irrelevant here. If you legalize abortion up to and past a certain point after birth, you are setting a precedent. It may and probably will be misused. Another problem is that it leads to a slippery slope, wherein societies and governments permit ever greater leeway in handling an issue. I brought up China and their practice of late-term and full term abortion of healthy infants in healthy mothers, and someone objected that this was an irrelevant point because China doesn't respect human life. As if the Chinese are some sort of aliens -- a THEM we could never become. That's some mighty hubris. Of course we could be THEM. We are exactly the same species, and our propensity to dehumanize one another is universal.
It's mostly regurgitation of talking points put out by organized far right wing anti-abortion crowd/activists.
I'm sure personal belief infuses and twists some of these talking points. A lot of the aforementioned talking points are not factual or are twisted in some way to suit the agenda.
It's mostly regurgitation of talking points put out by organized far left wing pro-abortion crowd/activists.
I'm sure personal belief infuses and twists some of these talking points. A lot of the aforementioned talking points are not factual or are twisted in some way to suit the agenda
People turn dark and destructive fairly quickly without outside restraint (i.e., threat of punishment). My stating so does not make ME a violent person, it makes me a realistic student of history. A mere 24-hour power outage in New York in 1977 turned into a massive crime rampage. And that was in a major American city in the 70's, a fairly chill time. What is YOUR explanation of why people behaved like this when they COULD?
But that is a drop in the ocean compared to what people do to each other all around the world when they don't have to fear consequences.
But the thread is about legislation and setting a precedent, not necessarily about what people are capable of and to what degree they'd breach their own humanity if given the chance, although that point is not completely irrelevant here. If you legalize abortion up to and past a certain point after birth, you are setting a precedent. It may and probably will be misused. Another problem is that it leads to a slippery slope, wherein societies and governments permit ever greater leeway in handling an issue. I brought up China and their practice of late-term and full term abortion of healthy infants in healthy mothers, and someone objected that this was an irrelevant point because China doesn't respect human life. As if the Chinese are some sort of aliens -- a THEM we could never become. That's some mighty hubris. Of course we could be THEM. We are exactly the same species, and our propensity to dehumanize one another is universal.
This.
We've seen the slippery slope in other areas regarding women, er, excuse me, birthing persons.
It is happening.
03-24-2022, 12:04 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan A Smith
The following 8 states allow abortion up to the moment of birth, which means an unborn person can be killed right up to and during delivery. Sounds like a nice thing to do to an unborn person who can fully feel at that point, doesn't it?
What if they insured that person would not feel any pain in the abortion process?
Quote:
Setting aside what current laws are and speaking just from your own heart, do you believe an unborn person should be able to be killed right up to birth, during birth or before the cord is cut from the mother?
Depends on the health/medical condition of the mother and the child. Otherwise no!
Under normal circumstances I'm pro-choice up to the first trimester. I try to make my decision on this based upon the development and capacity for pain and suffering of the organism.
You need to get educated on late term abortions. It’s a medical procedure. I am not a doctor. LTA are very rare about 1 percent of all abortions. The scenario you keep asking about even more rare. Your scenario with a healthy baby attached doesn’t happen. How much clearer can I be. I am pro choice. I will not get between a woman and her doctor.
Again, Yes or No. Do you support that choice when the baby is out but still attached to the woman? It's still part of her body.
You're banging your head against a wall. They want to believe what they want to believe, and what they want to believe is that there are scads of women and doctors out there just waiting to kill a healthy, full-term baby.
But in case anyone intelligent is following this thread, a real-life situation was described when the late-term abortion law was changed in New York that demonstrates what it's actually all about.
A New York woman who was carrying a severely malformed fetus that would die at birth had to fly to Colorado to deliver her dead baby, because the law in New York made it illegal for her to have the delivery in her own state. What the change in law did was NOT to allow anyone to saunter in and demand the death of a full-term, healthy fetus. It removed the procedure from being a legal issue to being a health issue.
No, you are completely missing the point.
The point is to find out if people claiming they fully support the woman's right to do whatever she wants with her body really do. This is why I am using the scenario where the baby is still part of the mother's body via the umbilical cord. Everyone claiming they fully support the woman's right to her own choices evade the question at all costs, because it will show they do not support that right in all cases.
What I am trying to drill down to here is that just about every person believes there should be some sort of limit on when you can kill a growing human being. The differences are at what point and under what circumstances. Some don't believe it should ever be allowed, some believe under certain conditions and some at a wide range of conditions. I doubt very few truly believe in that right under ALL conditions.
If you could get pro-choice people to honestly answer different scenarios, you would most likely find that not all would be fine with killing a totally viable, healthy baby as it is exiting the canal.
The end point is that unless you fully support the right of the mother to kill that child up to and including during chid birth and after birth before the cord is cut, you don't FULLY support the woman's right to choose. You only support it under certain circumstances.
This is just something those on the left don't want to admit. They don't want to admit that they too want to impose limits and restrictions. They don't fully support a woman's right to choose. They will play word games or say I won't answer that scenario. We all know why they won't answer. Because it will show the hypocrisy in claiming one thing, but believing something else.
Women don’t carry for 8 months then change their minds when they have a healthy pregnancy. Women have access to abort an unwanted pregnancy many months before the only option is a LTA. No reason for her to wait 8 months, then abort in a much more medically complicated way, then to of done it early. Thinking they do is pure fantasy
Tell that to Kermit Gosnell, Abu Hayat and George Tiller. They all performed many late term abortions of otherwise healthy babies.
I am pro choice. It's my decision and no one else's. While I think this is extreme, there could be a number of reasons why this may be needed last minute. Again, it would be no one else's business but the mothers.
So you are fine with the killing of a baby as it exits the canal or even after it is out but still part of the mother's body via the umbilical cord?
It's a Yes or No answer. Either you are okay with it or you are not.
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