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Our ancestors did it. Maybe we should all be deported back to the country our ancestors came from. Wouldn't that be a hoot. No more celebrations of different cultures --- we'd all be as one.
Do you know how many indigenous groups there were in the United States and are federally recognised? 574. In the northeast alone there were the Massachusett, Nipmuc, Wampanoag, Narraganasett, Mohegan, Pequot, Pocomtuc, Montaukett, Pennacook, Mahican, Wenro, Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Oneida, Mohawk, Susquehana, Erie, Wappinger, and a bunch more; each one with their own language and system of government oftentimes with a chieftain or clan mother, religion and so on. To form any kind of unified nation that doesn't come out looking like Papua New Guinea you would need consolidation. The Beringians themselves practised this like in the case of the Wabanaki Confederacy and Haudenosaunee which, yes, did see the subjugation and absorption of smaller tribal groups into a larger polity.
None of it excuses what the European settlers and later the United States government perpetrated against them. Although you're talking about civilisations that had yet to discover the wheel, with the exception of some Mesoamerican toys that had miniature wheels attached, and some of whom were still practising the hunter-gathering lifestyle by the era of 'Exploration'. The biggest civilisations they had developed were based in Central America and had some metallurgical advancement in silver/gold/copper, but I don't think anyone is going to defend the Aztecs and Mayans when they were brought down thanks to the involvement of the Spanish.
In the parlance of modern institutions, Americans shouldn't be deported from a society they legally reside in which didn't exist 300-400 years ago. Affording restitution to persecuted indigenous groups and trying to help them lawfully reclaim lands? Sure. But if you think it's morally just or practical for Americans to hand over the government, infrastructure, and keys to the nuclear arsenal to Chuck Hoskin Jr while bidding a fond adieu as we all make our way back to Europe, Africa, or Asia then I don't know what to tell you.
What part about this is mostly about illegals aliens as to why we are hearing so much Spanish being spoken do you constantly refuse to get? Just because I can't control it and haven't even tried to doesn't mean I don't have a right to my opinion in this forum. Why is it always considering to be "hollering"? If you want to go that route then there are just as many posters in here who are "hollering" with their opposite opinion.
Why would I want to teach illegal aliens, English? They need to be deported not educated and I don't have the authority to deport them either. That's our government's job. If I can't be remembered for being a patriot by those on the constant attack in her for wanting to retain our identifying culture and language and not wanting us to become balkinized then they are no skin off my nose and I couldn't care less what xenophiles think of me anyway.
No, this is what you said that I responded to:
Quote:
Spanish speakers whether here legally or illegally do not care who's around them when they talk loudly in Spanish out in public. They don't just do it around their own ethnic group. I don't know why non-assimilation into our society is so embraced by some people.
Obviously when I made the suggestions about acceptance and possibly helping the new immigrants, I wasn't referring to the illegal immigrants. As a matter of fact, I put that subject to bed at the beginning of the post to which you are responding. You don't seem to always pay attention to what the posts you respond to actually say, I've noticed.
I call it "hollering" because you seem so terribly angry all the time, and I picture this guy with a vein bulging in his forehead, scowling, shaking his fist, calling people names, and yelling loudly when I read your posts. It's the picture your words paint in my mind. Hard to see anything else, but of course we can only know one another by how we present ourselves here. In the real world, I grant you could be some totally different person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
If you and any others in here are offended by my opinions then feel free to put me on ignore.
Offended?
You can't offend me. I'm not part of any group you hate that I know of. Of course, I may not have your full list. Just trying to help you learn and maybe make you think and look at things in a different way. Your choice not to do so, of course.
But meanwhile, maybe dig down deep and try to understand within yourself why it bothers you so. Then see what changes you can make within so it doesn't bother you so.
Good post, but no doubt it will go over his head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins
Why do people freak out when they hear a non-English language being spoken? Is it just some sort of right-wing temper tantrum? Do they want to be able to follow someone else's private conversation? Do they think the speakers are talking about them?
Little do they know that the folks speaking Spanish just don't care what some cranky Anglo thinks about their conversation style.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b29510
its human nature, you want to be included and your worry they are talking about you, and they might be. Its like they are hiding some thing from you
Again. They don't care about you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
If I can't be remembered for being a patriot by those on the constant attack in her for wanting to retain our identifying culture and language and not wanting us to become balkinized.
Xenophobia isn't patriotic. It's the opposite of patriotic.
And it's "Balkanized". I'm pretty sure i that's an English word. Odd that you don't know it ... ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
I just hate how these pro-illegals love to live in the past to justify illegal immigration into our country today.
Who here is "pro-illegal"? I haven't seen anyone post such.
Quote:
Ethnic celebrations are fine for a day but not ethnic takeovers via illegal immigration.
What ethnic takeovers are you taking about. Please be specific.
Obviously when I made the suggestions about acceptance and possibly helping the new immigrants, I wasn't referring to the illegal immigrants. As a matter of fact, I put that subject to bed at the beginning of the post to which you are responding. You don't seem to always pay attention to what the posts you respond to actually say, I've noticed.
I call it "hollering" because you seem so terribly angry all the time, and I picture this guy with a vein bulging in his forehead, scowling, shaking his fist, calling people names, and yelling loudly when I read your posts. It's the picture your words paint in my mind. Hard to see anything else, but of course we can only know one another by how we present ourselves here. In the real world, I grant you could be some totally different person.
Offended?
You can't offend me. I'm not part of any group you hate that I know of. Of course, I may not have your full list. Just trying to help you learn and maybe make you think and look at things in a different way. Your choice not to do so, of course.
Yes, this is what I said, "Spanish speakers whether here legally or illegally do not care who's around them when they talk loudly in Spanish out in public. They don't just do it around their own ethnic group. I don't know why non-assimilation into our society is so embraced by some people."
Those are the facts so what's the problem?
I'm no more angry than those who seem to have to go on the personal attack because the don't agree with me. So why single me out? At least I don't do that. I try to follow the rules of the forum on personal attacks and for the most part I have succeeded at that.
The picture of me that you have in your mind is not me at all. You can picture anything you want but that doesn't make it true. It happens every time I have a discussion with mostly liberals. It's a veiled attempt at a personal attack by describing me in such a manner when you don't even know me in real life. I feel strongly about this subject but that doesn't make me a ranting lunatic in real life. I just vent in here.
What are you confused about? I explained myself as best I can.
There you go insinuating that I hate any group. There is a whole lot of difference between hatred and objection.
Why should I help immigrants learn English? There are all kinds of places that provide ESL classes in our country. Many of them learn English but refuse to speak it anyway so what's the point?
This is my opinion also and I'm not trying to cause trouble by saying it. I don't think moderators should take sides in here. They should remain neutral and unbiased and I'm actually surprised that they are allowed to post in the forum but then I don't make the rules it's merely my opinion.
Why don't you do yourself and me a favor and put me on your ignore list as I'm not allowed to put a moderator on mine? We will never agree on this topic so it seems the best approach.
Yes, this is what I said, "Spanish speakers whether here legally or illegally do not care who's around them when they talk loudly in Spanish out in public. They don't just do it around their own ethnic group. I don't know why non-assimilation into our society is so embraced by some people."
Those are the facts so what's the problem?
I'm no more angry than those who seem to have to go on the personal attack because the don't agree with me. So why single me out? At least I don't do that. I try to follow the rules of the forum on personal attacks and for the most part I have succeeded at that.
The picture of me that you have in your mind is not me at all. You can picture anything you want but that doesn't make it true. It happens every time I have a discussion with mostly liberals. It's a veiled attempt at a personal attack by describing me in such a manner when you don't even know me in real life. I feel strongly about this subject but that doesn't make me a ranting lunatic in real life. I just vent in here.
What are you confused about? I explained myself as best I can.
There you go insinuating that I hate any group. There is a whole lot of difference between hatred and objection.
Why should I help immigrants learn English? There are all kinds of places that provide ESL classes in our country. Many of them learn English but refuse to speak it anyway so what's the point?
This is my opinion also and I'm not trying to cause trouble by saying it. I don't think moderators should take sides in here. They should remain neutral and unbiased and I'm actually surprised that they are allowed to post in the forum but then I don't make the rules it's merely my opinion.
Why don't you do yourself and me a favor and put me on your ignore list as I'm not allowed to put a moderator on mine? We will never agree on this topic so it seems the best approach.
Why should people care if anyone is around when they speak Spanish? The only concern should be if the person they are talking to can understand them. If your feelings are so sensitive that they get hurt when you hear a foreign language, maybe you should just stay home.
Yes, this is what I said, "Spanish speakers whether here legally or illegally do not care who's around them when they talk loudly in Spanish out in public. They don't just do it around their own ethnic group. I don't know why non-assimilation into our society is so embraced by some people."
Those are the facts so what's the problem?
I'm no more angry than those who seem to have to go on the personal attack because the don't agree with me. So why single me out? At least I don't do that. I try to follow the rules of the forum on personal attacks and for the most part I have succeeded at that.
The picture of me that you have in your mind is not me at all. You can picture anything you want but that doesn't make it true. It happens every time I have a discussion with mostly liberals. It's a veiled attempt at a personal attack by describing me in such a manner when you don't even know me in real life. I feel strongly about this subject but that doesn't make me a ranting lunatic in real life. I just vent in here.
What are you confused about? I explained myself as best I can.
There you go insinuating that I hate any group. There is a whole lot of difference between hatred and objection.
Why should I help immigrants learn English? There are all kinds of places that provide ESL classes in our country. Many of them learn English but refuse to speak it anyway so what's the point?
This is my opinion also and I'm not trying to cause trouble by saying it. I don't think moderators should take sides in here. They should remain neutral and unbiased and I'm actually surprised that they are allowed to post in the forum but then I don't make the rules it's merely my opinion.
Why don't you do yourself and me a favor and put me on your ignore list as I'm not allowed to put a moderator on mine? We will never agree on this topic so it seems the best approach.
I am not one of the moderators assigned to this forum. While any mod can technically mod in any forum, we tend to respect one another's territory unless we see something egregious that needs immediate attention. I am posting here as a member of CD, just as you are.
I am not looking to agree. I am a person who survived a terrorist attack on a place where people of every race and religion and language worked and managed to get along, and it was destroyed by a group of people who only saw a "Them" that they decided were the enemy.
I will always speak out against people who view groups of humans as "Thems". It's as simple as that.
I will never change your mind. But you provide an opportunity for me to say things that may make other people who read our conversations think.
Why don't you ask the poster that I replied to? He/she seems to "favor" our differences to embrace.
I'm not interested in nor do I care about what was said by the other poster that you replied to. I'm responding to YOUR comment.
You are just trying to deflect my question over to another person but I'll ask you again, what would be so difficult with embracing both the differences and the similarities between cultures? There isn't anything wrong with it, so why not accept it?
Usually when I hear a foreign language I try to figure out which one it is. I'm multilingual, so I enjoy trying to figure out which language they are speaking and seeing if I can peace together what the words mean. I learned languages by living abroad and listening to the people speaking around me. It really opens the World up when you can communicate with more people. I love learning languages and try to learn a thing or two every chance I get.
I truly can't understand why hearing people speak another language would bother anyone, unless you were speaking directly with that person and you couldn't understand each other. Even then, it's just another opportunity to learn something valuable...
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