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View Poll Results: Are electric vehicles the future of American personal travel?
Yes 202 44.99%
No 247 55.01%
Voters: 449. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-29-2022, 03:30 PM
 
2,309 posts, read 956,773 times
Reputation: 1382

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Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
But, at least you CAN maintain them. If a circuit fries in your electric engine, whaddya do? You need to wait in line and be at the mercy of your authorized service station.

And whatever maintenance costs you save on a gas engine vs. an electric engine, all the wear and tear goes in to the BATTERY. When that is shot, the car is shot. And there isn't much you can do about it.

You're rejoicing in owning more of a BLACK BOX. I don't see that as progress or something not to worry about.

Do you fix your computer or your iphone? No, you just discard them and get a new one. Same with your "EV?" That'll be QUITE expensive.

For the VAST majority of the world, a black box is a good thing. A car to them is just an appliance that gets them from A to B.

The last thing they want is to troubleshoot and repair things themselves.


As a car enthusiast that tinkered on my own cars, I am getting to that point myself.
No more changing my own brakes, tracking down electrical gremlins (yes those exist(ed) in ICE cars back in the distributor days, and it still has a 12v system), no more worry about belts rotting and oil changes. Just tires, wiper blades, and washer fluid.

And yes, as an IT guy, I do fix my own computer and phones.
Every PC I've ever owned was built by myself. I've replaced more screens and batteries on my wife's iPhone than I can remember.
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Old 04-29-2022, 03:37 PM
 
2,309 posts, read 956,773 times
Reputation: 1382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee-Bey View Post
I've been hearing that since the 70s. Innovation is by definition beyond predicting and in fact it continues to accelerate. Predicting a peak in innovation is a fool's errand.


Oh really? Some ICE tech in R&D and/or in early production :

* Ignition accelerator systems to reduce wasted detonation pre-TDC. Near infrared lasers to ignite multiple points within the combustion chamber simultaneously. Injecting sheets of low-temp plasma to ignite ultra-lean mixtures coolly for a 15% increase in economy and less NOx.

* Innovative blowers. Electric 'turbos' powered off of accumulated waste energy. No parasitic losses, higher economy and more power by eliminating turbo lag. CVT driven centrifugal superchargers that perfectly match blower speed to demand.

* Dynamic cylinder deactivation. Smarter electronic fuel control allowing smoother and more seamless cylinder activation/de-activation. It's not your father's Cadillac V8-6-4.

* Ultra-high compression ratios. 15:1 compression matched with a 98 octane fuel standard allows much higher thermodynamic efficiency, more specific power (Hp per liter) hence smaller engines and less emissions.

* Variable compression ratio technology. Hydraulic extension and compression of connecting rods to vary the compression ratio dynamically according to power or efficiency maps.

* New engine types. Three cylinder, six opposed piston two-strokes that make huge torque from small displacements.

* Homogeneous charge compression that works like a gas/diesel crossover. ultra-lean gas/air mixtures ignited on compression. Lower emissions, more power.

I'm not an automotive engineer, just a car enthusiast. If I'm aware of this much then the reality of upcoming innovation is 10x that. Never EVER bet against innovation.

And all of those innovations are yielding very little in terms of fuel efficiency. Nissan's variable compression is neat, as is direct/dual injection (which come with their own problems), turbo's increase complexity and require premium.
You can't defy physics. A combustion engine by nature creates heat as a by product which is energy lost.
Manufacturers are investing their R&D in EVs, not ICE.

Hyundai is shutting down their entire engine dev division - https://electrek.co/2021/12/28/hyund...electric-cars/


Quote:
Gasoline engines have been beyond the skills of most backyard mechanics since EFI in the 80s and yet here we still are. Everybody's still buying them.
Did I say people weren't? I was responding to the guy that says a plus of ICE is self-diagnosing and repairability.

Last edited by bluesclues5; 04-29-2022 at 03:55 PM..
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Old 04-29-2022, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
you have a lack of understanding of bar graphs and/or sales and JUMPS

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/202...-still-on-top/
EV Sales Jumped 83% in U.S. in 2021


that's a year over year increase...exponential increase....within 5 years EV's will surpass ICE
Your lack of statistics understanding is obvious.

83% jump as a stand-alone number is meaningless.

If I have one cow and buy two cows my herd has gone up 200%. But it still only increased by two cows so I still have a very small herd.

And you overlooked this from your link: "The final tally was 434,879 EVs, an 83% jump compared with 2020 results, Reuters reported. However, they accounted for about 3% of the total new-vehicle market of 15.1 million units."

And you are cherry-picking your data. If you go back to 2018 - 2020, EV sales in the USA DECREASED each year.

So sales decreased for two years and then increased 83%. That's not exactly startling.
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Old 04-29-2022, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post

Hyundai is shutting down their entire engine dev division - https://electrek.co/2021/12/28/hyund...electric-cars/
But not BMW and Mercedes.


https://uk.motor1.com/news/565563/bm...rns-warns-ice/

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1890870
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Old 04-29-2022, 05:16 PM
 
30,395 posts, read 21,215,773 times
Reputation: 11954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
How so, can your EV go without charging for weeks at a time? I gas up my SUV and I never have to do a thing to it for a couple weeks. It's not like we ICE owners are daily pouring engine oil, transmission fluid, radiator coolant, or cleaning the spark plugs. Besides, when we do fill the gas tank it takes us 5 minutes tops, and we are good for another week or three.
I can go a month without charging bra and drive it to work kirk every day.
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Old 04-29-2022, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Austin
2,953 posts, read 992,084 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
You can't defy physics. A combustion engine by nature creates heat as a by product which is energy lost.
Seriously what is the point or significance of that statement of obviousness? You've just (rather poorly) restated Carnot's theorem that engines are subject to energy loss in the form of heat. The amount of which is non-zero per the 2nd law of thermodynamics which assures us that any process of converting energy from one form to another will necessarily result in inefficiencies and losses. So what? This isn't news. Your discovery of physics is sudden justification for switching from IC engines to EV?
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Old 04-29-2022, 11:45 PM
 
8,928 posts, read 2,960,520 times
Reputation: 5162
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
Apparently you're not familiar with the word, trend. Nor are you familiar with the words, exponential growth.

EVs accounted for 8.6% of all new car sales globally in 2021, more than double in 2020.

Your arguments have reached rock bottom, and yet you continue to dig.
Really though, it's a paltry number, even if you include the whole world.

The only two places where EVs are even a little popular are China and Europe, and that's mainly due to culture and political circumstance.

The people in those places basically do what their governments tell them. They are used to packing like sardines into public transportation, and they are used to paying insane amounts of money for gasoline because of their massive socialist costs built into everything they do.

They don't really have a car culture like we have here. Obviously, it wouldn't fly here on the mainstream. It barely does even in those places where the political and social climates would be more favorable.

Your chart shows that EVs have reach a peak of 4% of sales in 11 years! The only reason you still think it's "the future" is because that's what your TV has told you for the past couple decades, and what one major political party keeps telling you over and over.
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Old 04-29-2022, 11:46 PM
 
8,928 posts, read 2,960,520 times
Reputation: 5162
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
you have a lack of understanding of bar graphs and/or sales and JUMPS

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/202...-still-on-top/
EV Sales Jumped 83% in U.S. in 2021


that's a year over year increase...exponential increase....within 5 years EV's will surpass ICE
Bahahahahahaha! 5 years! Our entire infrastructure is going to change over in 5 years.

Riiiiiiiiight.
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Old 04-29-2022, 11:49 PM
 
8,928 posts, read 2,960,520 times
Reputation: 5162
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
For the VAST majority of the world, a black box is a good thing. A car to them is just an appliance that gets them from A to B.

The last thing they want is to troubleshoot and repair things themselves.


As a car enthusiast that tinkered on my own cars, I am getting to that point myself.
No more changing my own brakes, tracking down electrical gremlins (yes those exist(ed) in ICE cars back in the distributor days, and it still has a 12v system), no more worry about belts rotting and oil changes. Just tires, wiper blades, and washer fluid.

And yes, as an IT guy, I do fix my own computer and phones.
Every PC I've ever owned was built by myself. I've replaced more screens and batteries on my wife's iPhone than I can remember.
Wow, this is breathtaking. I don't even mean themselves, even though all men should know how to work on their own cars. What about the local mechanic down the road?

If everything in your car boils down to an electric circuit board like an iPhone, guess what, you have to go ONLY to the manufacturer for service.

Duhhhhhhhh. You haven't fixed your own iPhone my friend. It's a black box, closed system.

You're encouraging more people to be at the mercy of billion dollar corporations. Wow, that's against all DNA of Democrats, or at least it used to be.
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Old 04-29-2022, 11:51 PM
 
8,928 posts, read 2,960,520 times
Reputation: 5162
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
And all of those innovations are yielding very little in terms of fuel efficiency. Nissan's variable compression is neat, as is direct/dual injection (which come with their own problems), turbo's increase complexity and require premium.
You can't defy physics. A combustion engine by nature creates heat as a by product which is energy lost.
Manufacturers are investing their R&D in EVs, not ICE.

Hyundai is shutting down their entire engine dev division - https://electrek.co/2021/12/28/hyund...electric-cars/


Did I say people weren't? I was responding to the guy that says a plus of ICE is self-diagnosing and repairability.
Fuel efficiency is perfectly acceptable. You can buy cars nowadays that get 50 miles to the gallon.

Gas is relatively cheap, even when Democrats are in office.
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