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View Poll Results: Are electric vehicles the future of American personal travel?
Yes 202 44.99%
No 247 55.01%
Voters: 449. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-12-2022, 02:59 PM
 
8,893 posts, read 2,929,259 times
Reputation: 5127

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Hybrids are the more sensible choice. But even they still require rare earth metals, unfortunately these materials are rare, and unfriendly nations control the majority of those materials.

Until we can find an alternative to the ICE, which uses common and abundant materials, but if not, then those materials can be easily and economically recycled, then EVs are not the way to go.
I would agree with this completely.

Alas though, "Hybrids" are still no good to the environMENTALISTS because it means that those nasty, disgusting gas stations will still need to exist.

Remember: it's a movement about philosophy, not functionality.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:13 PM
 
19,563 posts, read 17,845,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Sure it will be expensive, if you buy a brand new, complete engine for a top of the line vehicle, from the manufacturer.

The Toyota Rav 4 is one of the most popular cars. You can easily drive its original engine for 150,000 or more miles. You can buy a newly rebuilt engine for 2-4k. The current price tag for the Bolt EV battery pack is about $15,000

Toyota RAV4 replacement engine prices $2k - $4k

The reason is because ICEs can be rebuilt, normally the main components can simple be reused. EV battery packs cannot be rebuilt, they have to be manufactured all over again from scratch. Which means tones of raw materials need to be mined and processed all over again. That is very dirty and energy intensive.
Noting that many ICE engines may be rebuildable is one thing. The fact remans few autos actually see a rebuilt engine.

Anyway your point about end of auto-life EV batteries not being recyclable isn't correct. There are at least two large scale EV battery recycling plants being built. One in NY and another in GA IIRC. No need to start from scratch.



Here's a little primer.....
https://www.wired.com/story/cars-goi...sed-batteries/
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
29,972 posts, read 18,814,970 times
Reputation: 25919
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
I would agree with this completely.

Alas though, "Hybrids" are still no good to the environMENTALISTS because it means that those nasty, disgusting gas stations will still need to exist.

Remember: it's a movement about philosophy, not functionality.
It's about cleaner air and reduction in Climate Change. And EV's are much better than hybrids in this regard.

I have a plug-in hybrid (BMW X5 45e) and an EV (Telsa Model Y). the main reason I have the hybrid is for long trips, once EV's start hitting 500+ miles, it's over for ICE and hybrids.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:19 PM
 
8,893 posts, read 2,929,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
It's about cleaner air and reduction in Climate Change. And EV's are much better than hybrids in this regard.

I have a plug-in hybrid (BMW X5 45e) and an EV (Telsa Model Y). the main reason I have the hybrid is for long trips, once EV's start hitting 500+ miles, it's over for ICE and hybrids.
Exactly my point. The environment fairy. We need to stop that climate from "changing."

Even when batteries improve, they will still remain fringe/niche and will never supplant gasoline.

Batteries are the weak link. Can't run a generator off batteries.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:26 PM
 
19,563 posts, read 17,845,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
Exactly my point. The environment fairy. We need to stop that climate from "changing."

Even when batteries improve, they will still remain fringe/niche and will never supplant gasoline.

Batteries are the weak link. Can't run a generator off batteries.
You can't possibly believe that?

Do you believe all the companies promising to end tailpipe emissions engines in 7-10-12 years are lying?

Maybe you need to get on the horn with GM engineering and set them straight.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:29 PM
 
Location: NC
9,347 posts, read 13,980,872 times
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Define what is meant by the future. Next year? In 20 years? Within the next 100 years?

I think it will mostly depend on what is available for sale. Maybe all of the car manufacturers will get on board and only build EVs. Depends on what the profit margin looks like and what government regulations give rise to based on sustained availability of resources.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,296 posts, read 61,087,401 times
Reputation: 30199
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
Uh huh. I can't wait to see the ability for one of those monstrous batteries to hold a charge with that much use on it.

You guys believe in fairy dust.

Funny that their warranty is only 8 years/100k - 150k miles (depending on model), and they stipulate that, 70% retention of a charge is the floor that is NOT COVERED! It has to get into the 60s or lower before it's covered, meaning that your "250 mile range" when new is now 30% less than that and they consider that "not covered!"

Haha.

Tesla doesn't even recommend charging to 100% unless you're "going on a longer trip" as that adversely affects the battery.

Also, note, PRE 2020, they had "unlimited" warranties on some models. There was also no 70% charge retention floor. Wonder what happened?
Wow

I do hope that you are in therapy. Fermenting all of that hatred is not good for you.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,883 posts, read 21,983,441 times
Reputation: 13717
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
I would agree with this completely.

Alas though, "Hybrids" are still no good to the environMENTALISTS because it means that those nasty, disgusting gas stations will still need to exist.

Remember: it's a movement about philosophy, not functionality.
I get that. However, what I'd like to see is a transition to propane, Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG), or natural gas. It has lower emissions. However, gasoline is still easier to store and a bit faster to refuel than LPG, and normally gasoline powered cars can go further on a tank. And LPG is an abundant resource and will not end up depleting precious rare earth metals, which are required for so many high tech applications.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,296 posts, read 61,087,401 times
Reputation: 30199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
... The reason is because ICEs can be rebuilt, normally the main components can simply be reused. EV battery packs cannot be rebuilt, they have to be manufactured all over again from scratch. Which means tones of raw materials need to be mined and processed all over again. That is very dirty and energy intensive.
EV battery packs can be rebuilt.

There are shops wo do that kind of work.

I have seen DIY videos on how to crack into the battery pack to test and swap out bad cells.

Brand new replacement HV batteries for the Tesla S currently run $12k

For my Prius Prime I have seen replacement HV batteries as low as $3500 [the labor rate is around $300]
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,296 posts, read 61,087,401 times
Reputation: 30199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Hybrids are the more sensible choice. But even they still require rare earth metals, unfortunately these materials are rare, and unfriendly nations control the majority of those materials.
The world's largest deposit of Lithium is right here in the USA.
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