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So, women are getting arrested for killing their unborn children? Am I supposed to be upset about this? I'm not.
No, but lots of Christian Right people quite passionately care about it so much that they want all or nearly all abortions to be banned and absolutely not regulated.
sure it does, you just don't like the response but it is relevant.
Relevant how? I already stated that no one is arguing that abortion is only a modern day atrocity. You are arguing with yourself over a point no one is disputing.
No you wouldn't which is why it makes sense that 95% of all abortions are due to unintended pregnancies. So why are you trying to claim that isn't true?
The problem comes in when we see that 95% of all unintended pregnancies are due to voluntary participation in unprotected sex. Why in the hell are 680,000 women going through the extra cost and trouble of getting an abortion each year when getting and using birth control is so ridiculously easy?
There are over 4,000 taxpayer-funded Title X Family Planning Clinics located throughout the US.
There are only 272 abortion clinics located throughout the US. https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/29/healt...rnd/index.html
Guess which is MUCH harder to access.
You are trying to twist the statistic buy repeating and bolding 95%. In reality 40% of unplanned pregnancies are unwanted and aborted, 40%. Is that not what you are concerned about, the actual abortions? 40%.
Why is the percentage of voluntary participation in sex the problem? Why is not planning a problem?
I was not planned, nor any of my siblings, most people I know were not planned.
The actual problem is 40%. According to data in 2018 in the us there were ~3.8 million births. Given about half of the pregnancies are unplanned, thats ~1.9 million, or 95%=~1.8 million. In 2018 there were ~620 thousand abortions. So in 2018 (last year I could find statistics) 34% of voluntary unplanned (no BC or BC fail) pregnancies were aborted.
34%
Now you keep stating BC is so ridiculously easy without taking into consideration the individual human state. You assume first that all females live within distance of the 4000 clinics. There are 3.80 million sq. miles in the US. Distributed equally that would be what one per 950 square miles?
Second you keep assuming everyone is equal in maturity, education, finances, and ability. Think about the demographic who has ~60% of abortions. Living in poverty, unmarried, less than a high school education, between 18-249 years old. These are exactly women who are not going to find BC easily accessible, not going to have the maturity, experience, self esteem, knowledge or guidance to be very responsible.
How you going to get these women to a free clinic and see that they take their pill everyday, or get to appointments for an IUD or implants and subsequent appointments?
Reasonable people understand that human fetuses become children about 80-85% of the time sans abortion.
and an acorn becomes an oak tree but it is not an oak tree is it.
and a fertilized chicken egg becomes a chicken 80-85% of the time, but an egg is not a chicken.
Reasonable people understand that these things have a potential to become a tree or a chicken, just as a fetus has the potential to become a child.
If that's what they want to do, I'll support that. Some people name the babies they miscarried and have funerals for them. My aunt had a miscarriage in the toilet and flushed it.
Everyone has a different take on this. The point is, no one would ever, ever force you to have an abortion. But you want to force motherhood on other women. These are kids who aren't wanted. And no child is going to thank you for letting him or her be born to a woman who doesn't want them.
We don't already have enough abused and emotionally wounded children in this world already? Many of whom were born to parents who claimed they wanted them in the first place? What kind of a person wants to commit a child to that?
I took the 525,000 as sort of a middle number. Divided by 3.5 million gives a 15% abortion rate. I guess you'd have to decide whether 15% is a lot or not.
But here's another number for Informed Consent. Condom failure is 3%.
"The provisional number of births for the United States in 2020 was 3,605,201, down 4% from 2019."
So if we figure .03 x 3,605,201 , we get 108,156 pregnancies from condom failure alone, if every man used a condom.
That there's a lot of pregnancies from a form of birth control that everyone thinks will reduce both pregnancies and abortion.
As to that 525,000 number for abortions (remember, middle number)? That's one hell of a lot of kids to bring into the world who may be abused and neglected. That's more than doubling the number of children we have in foster care right now, many of whom age out of the foster care system out to living on the street, selling drugs and being prostitutes to survive. How are we supposed to pay for the ones who end up in in prison, commit crimes, and will probably go on to abuse their own kids?
Maybe that has more to do with lack of access to decent health care than it does to abortion and maybe it's because we have women who have no access to mental health care and so end up drowning their kids in a tub. Or teen girls who have been denied access to Plan B or an abortion because the state won't let them have either without their parents' permission. Maybe we're talking about a woman who is being abused by her husband and was threatened if she got an abortion.
Here's something for you:
"Source: National Vital Statistics System – Mortality Data (2020) via CDC WONDER
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 45,222
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.7
Why aren't we focusing on these preventable deaths instead of abortions?
I have a partial answer. I think it has to do with women and sex. If a woman is having sex to have a baby, she's considered the epitome of womanhood. If a woman has recreational sex and doesn't want a baby, she's a w***e and the whole abortion thing is merely a camouflage to put women under the control of men (or other vindictive women) and keep her there.
Tell me how wrong I am.
Just as no one ever stated that pregnancies didn't occur while people use birth control, but no one seems to believe me on that, either.
You know, all you have to do is read the book. How would I know if people were offended? The book was written in the 40s. Maybe you can do a little research and find out. Speaking of research, google is your friend:
Because your hangup is abortion. Abortion is what happens to a pregnant woman who doesn't want a baby. Again, unless you are trying to differentiate between the "good women" who correctly use birth control and the "bad women" who don't use any or misuse what they have, there's no reason to give a happy rat's ass how the woman got pregnant as long as in your world, she doesn't have an abortion.
No matter what you do, even if the entire female gender of the world takes birth control and takes it correctly, there will always be one woman who gets pregnant anyway and doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to give birth, and doesn't want to be a mother. At some point in time, you're going to have to learn to deal with that.
To repeat myself, the risk of giving birth is 33% greater than having an abortion. I personally don't believe the fetus is a child until it's born. That's my personal belief. But why I have to run the greater risk to give birth to something I don't believe is immoral to abort just because if offends your personal belief or personal opinion, I have no idea.
If it's something you think God wants you to do, that's just too bad. When you go from "God wants to make me do something" to "God wants me to make you do something", you're crossing the line.
Lots of people from lots of weird religions would like us all to do the weird things they do and the majority of them are absolutely positive they and only they are the mouthpieces for God. So if yours is a religious reason, it doesn't mean squat to me.
Other than that, the only other reason you have is that it's your personal belief. Hey, we're all allowed to have personal opinions. What we aren't allowed is to foist them onto other people. Now, if I were forcing every pregnant woman to have an abortion, you would have a good reason to complain. But I'm not.
I'm letting you do exactly as you please with the exception of running my life or trying to dictate to me your beliefs. And if that frustrates you or causes you pain, I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Grow up and get over it. Because no one on this earth or in heaven died and made you the boss over everyone. And if you continue to try to make other people do what you think they should do, don't be surprised if they tell you what I tell you: take a hike.
Your numbers regarding condoms are wrong. Male condoms are used by only 8.4% of women in childbearing years, not 100%. Using your calculation, the number of unintended pregnancies due to condom failure is under 9,000 not over 108,000.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
and an acorn becomes an oak tree but it is not an oak tree is it.
and a fertilized chicken egg becomes a chicken 80-85% of the time, but an egg is not a chicken.
Reasonable people understand that these things have a potential to become a tree or a chicken, just as a fetus has the potential to become a child.
To you, a fetus is nothing more than a fertilized egg that miraculously becomes a child when it's born?
To you, a fetus is nothing more than a fertilized egg that miraculously becomes a child when it's born?
Ask anyone who has ever mistakenly cracked open a fertilized egg if it's a chick.
I know someone who grabbed the wrong eggs when making egg salad. She boiled them. She was scarred for life. It's a chick. No questions about that.
Well, except for those who engage in cognitive dissonance, intellectual dishonesty and a stubborn and willful disregard for biology.
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