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Old 04-28-2022, 07:48 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,625,642 times
Reputation: 8616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
I would agree 100%. Humans are the issue, rather than the system.
Fact.

The output or result in any fixed system is entirely dependent on the input. No matter what system you apply to human beings, the input is infinite individual differences governed by the immutable and chaotic force we call human nature.

There is no getting around the immutable laws of the universe. There are ways to productively oppose or somehow make use of those immutable forces, but the force itself is unchanging and omnipresent. An airplane does not remove the immutable force of gravity, it simply uses engineering, fuel and horsepower to productively oppose it. Have an airplane run out of gas or have an engine or two fail, and gravity will quickly remind you that it never went anywhere and was right there, being immutable.

All collectives operate the same way. They use laws (social engineering), workers (fuel) and the government's monopoly on force/violence (engine) to oppose human nature. Laws and government force can be thought of inexhaustible supplies, but workers are not. Over time, always and everywhere, more people go from pulling the cart to riding in it. The fuel starts running out, and parallel to the airplane running out gas, well, once your worker::sloth ratio goes below 1::1, human nature will quickly remind you that it never went anywhere and was right there, being immutable. And that is under the perfectly optimal assumption that your law making and government force are flawless. Even then...the fuel runs out, and the system crashes.
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Old 04-28-2022, 07:53 AM
 
3,648 posts, read 3,784,861 times
Reputation: 5561
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Capitalism works great for the wealthy, not so great for anybody else. Being an economic slave, but having latest greatest cell phone, not a great tradeoff.
Capitalism and freedom gives each of us the opportunity to choose our destination.

I could choose to have toys, like the latest cell phone, or I can choose to work at whatever I want and build a measure of wealth for myself.
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:01 AM
 
5,930 posts, read 2,760,378 times
Reputation: 3438
European "socialism" works great when you have the US subsidizing their healthcare system and defense. Otherwise, I'd love to see Europe be able to defend itself, pay full prices for prescription drugs and have a large enough defense budget to defend themselves without having to relying on Uncle Sam and our tax dollars.
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:06 AM
 
4,662 posts, read 1,952,568 times
Reputation: 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Capitalism works great for the wealthy, not so great for anybody else. Being an economic slave, but having latest greatest cell phone, not a great tradeoff.
/cough the wealthy are not magically created. You realize that right? Almost 90% of millionaires are self made. They weren't given wealth, Daddy didnt start them off with their first million. It is Capitalism that made it possible for them to be wealthy. I and I am sure I am not the only one on these boards have friends whose family came over as immigrants with almost nothing in their pockets and in some cases not even speaking the language who are now wealthy. Once again Capitalism made that possible. Anybody in a Capitalist society can be well off and even wealthy if they do the right things in life. It really doesn't take much. What it does take is hard work, commitment, sacrifice and having the knowledge or willingness to gain that knowledge in how to be successful. That is really why so many fail at success. We do not teach how to be successful in our schools from a young age. Imagine if every kid learned about economics, investment and most important self discipline from their first day in school.
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:08 AM
 
5,930 posts, read 2,760,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
If socialism is so awful and would never work, why does America do everything it can to undermine any socialist government? It should just fall on it's own, right?
Socialism works great, until it doesn't, and when it doesn't 100 million people were slaughtered in Europe during the 20th century, between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Nazis (National Socialist German Workers' Party.

That's why you have America doing everything it can to prevent another Socialist regime from gaining too much power, bc when they do, they always fail and when they fail, tens of millions of people die a violent death. It happens every single time.
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:27 AM
 
1,691 posts, read 612,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Capitalism works great for the wealthy, not so great for anybody else. Being an economic slave, but having latest greatest cell phone, not a great tradeoff.
Capitalism is the ONLY system in the world where rags to riches is possible and happens frequently. Plus capitalism is almost always tied to other freedoms we get to enjoy. Socialism/Marxism/communism all end up with authoritarian governments. It is a natural extension of those economic models.

I’ll take my chances with capitalism every day of the week!
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:29 AM
 
9 posts, read 5,133 times
Reputation: 14
Because the US sabotages those governments and props up puppet dictatorships like Pinochet. Or puts Embargos for decades..
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Old 04-28-2022, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,285 posts, read 26,206,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648 View Post


All of them and abolish the income tax and FICA. The best social program is another 30% on my paycheck.
Yes let's make it 1930 again, the good old days.
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Old 04-28-2022, 09:38 AM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,792,492 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Yes let's make it 1930 again, the good old days.
Yes the good old days when I, and not some distant faceless incompetent corrupt bureaucrat, decided where I get to spend my money.

God forbid we give people the FREEDOM to do with the products of THEIR labor what THEY wish.
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Old 04-28-2022, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,630 posts, read 9,458,962 times
Reputation: 22970
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Capitalism works great for the wealthy, not so great for anybody else. Being an economic slave, but having latest greatest cell phone, not a great tradeoff.
The millions of immigrants who have died to get to America beg to differ.

Socialism has plenty of wealthy people, you think the North Korean elites are starving like the citizens?
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