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There are no medical "facts" around these vaccines. Just studies, and people's interpretations on what they say.
Also, you cannot compute how many lives these vaccines save without knowing their effect on all-cause mortality and these studies are not done.
What you posted, and others similar, just use vaccine efficacy at preventing death from COVID (all highly suspect) and run their estimates based on that without taking account for other deaths these vaccines could be causing, like increases in CVD.
As you know the elderly, who are also at highest risk from COVID are also at highest risk from dying from CVD. When a young person has a severe reaction to the jab, they may get myocarditis and live whereas an older person will suffer a MI or SCA. And because these events are relatively common in older people, it's harder to tie them to the vaccine.
But as this study showed, it's time we start looking real hard into it.
Sure there are facts. But they have to be taken in medical context. Including the who, where and when.
The vaccines have saved the lives of many people, mainly the aged and medically high risk. Very few have died due to the vaccines. Many more died from the infection, and remain disabled due to the longer term side effects of the disease.
The vaccines do have side effects. including cardiac. But the frequency and severity pales when compared to the disease. And the reason is as simple as the amount and duration of presence of the respective antigens. The vaccines are minuscule in amounts and brief in duration. They present only the spike.
I have no doubt that by selecting healthier or younger populations and during the more benign viral time frames, that your conclusion will have merit.
With many of our vaccines, there is a risk of certain autoimmune issues. Like MMR vaccines can cause ITP in certain people with certain genetic mutations.
It's possible there is some effect going on here. These vaccines, which provoke a powerful immune response, predispose certain people with certain genetic traits. We should be finding out who those are, as I never seen a vaccine in history cause so much carnage as these ones.
Hijacking the cell's own internal machinery with synthetic m(od)RNA without proper safety studies is gambling with people's lives.
Most all vaccine side effects are immune medicated. And this is of course nothing new. And can see the same effects with the Covid disease. Only with the disease the impact is much harsher and more commonly serious.
The amazing thing is people have settled with for the first time a so-called vaccine that "might lessen symptoms". We went from vaccines that supposedly stop or prevent transmission to a vaccine might less symptoms. Now, how would a vaccine work that doesn't stop you from getting infected, but somehow stop you from sneezing more or whatever. It makes zero sense and no "shot" ever been promoted in history like this.
Sorry if I don't trust big pharma who had everything to gain and nothing to lose which created a shot for a common cold virus in record time, when no common cold virus has ever worked or been approved. Now all of a sudden we have some miracle vaccine that works...yea ok. Oh, and then at the same time they said natural immunity doesn't work.
The amazing thing is people have settled with for the first time a so-called vaccine that "might lessen symptoms". We went from vaccines that supposedly stop or prevent transmission to a vaccine might less symptoms. Now, how would a vaccine work that doesn't stop you from getting infected, but somehow stop you from sneezing more or whatever. It makes zero sense and no "shot" ever been promoted in history like this.
Sorry if I don't trust big pharma who had everything to gain and nothing to lose which created a shot for a common cold virus in record time, when no common cold virus has ever worked or been approved. Now all of a sudden we have some miracle vaccine that works...yea ok. Oh, and then at the same time they said natural immunity doesn't work.
No vaccine is 100% effective. For example, the whooping cough vaccine wanes in effectiveness. Infection does not protect for a lifetime. Vaccinated people who get pertussis tend to have milder disease. Vaccinated people can be asymptomatic carriers of pertussis: infected, but no symptoms.
Therefore, it is not true that there is no precedent for the situation with the covid vaccines.
I experienced unexplained chest pain 2 days after the Moderna booster shot all testing showed no heart issues. I also had a much higher C-reactive protein then I did 5 months before the vaccines. Doctor speculates the vaccine caused some kind of inflammation. Due to the fact of other health issues I have I still would take the vaccine I can't afford to get serious case of Covid without a vaccine. The chest pain was intermittent sometimes while exercising on a treadmill it would modulate with the amount of exercising and as I reduced the speed it would go away. It took about 2 months for this intermittent chest pain to go away I got the booster in end of February by May it was gone I suspect the vaccine, but no way to prove it. It's going to take years to figure out all the side effects to the vaccine. I probalby won't get another booster unless we have high transmission rates of Covid again. I'm in my mid 50's so well outside of the typical age range of Myocarditis.
The amazing thing is people have settled with for the first time a so-called vaccine that "might lessen symptoms". We went from vaccines that supposedly stop or prevent transmission to a vaccine might less symptoms. Now, how would a vaccine work that doesn't stop you from getting infected, but somehow stop you from sneezing more or whatever. It makes zero sense and no "shot" ever been promoted in history like this.
Sorry if I don't trust big pharma who had everything to gain and nothing to lose which created a shot for a common cold virus in record time, when no common cold virus has ever worked or been approved. Now all of a sudden we have some miracle vaccine that works...yea ok. Oh, and then at the same time they said natural immunity doesn't work.
Exactly. When they said jab immunity was better than natural immunity...I don't think one could be poked in the eye with a red flag hard enough. Never mind attempting to change the definition of vaccine to encompass what's blatantly not a vaccine.
I feel for people with jab side effects. They were afraid, they're trusting people, they got the best information they could despite coming from seriously questionable sources. I get it. The pill hard to swallow is the censorship of these side effects on trusted platforms these people have obviously been contributors to for years. CD is pretty rare in that aspect.
For anyone pro jab, doesn't that seem kind of odd???
Last edited by HansProof; 05-09-2022 at 11:35 PM..
No vaccine is 100% effective. For example, the whooping cough vaccine wanes in effectiveness. Infection does not protect for a lifetime. Vaccinated people who get pertussis tend to have milder disease. Vaccinated people can be asymptomatic carriers of pertussis: infected, but no symptoms.
Therefore, it is not true that there is no precedent for the situation with the covid vaccines.
No one ever claimed that "natural immunity doesn't work." It will not 100% protect someone from getting infected with the virus again, though.
Sars-cov-2 is part of the common cold family of viruses. It is a corona virus, which is the same part of the common cold. It isn't some completely new family of viruses. Respiratory viruses usually fall into influenza or common cold...with different types.
Even if no precedent, with thousands of years of viruses, why would we have evidence that natural immunity doesn't work, or that a virus would suddenly act completely opposite of what it normally does.
Just look at this, they treated this like it wasn't airborne, then was was, and now finally admitting it was aerosols...which masks don't stop. All at the same time saying it was sars-cov-2 when we already had sars-cov-1 back in early 2000.
No vaccine is 100% effective. For example, the whooping cough vaccine wanes in effectiveness. Infection does not protect for a lifetime. Vaccinated people who get pertussis tend to have milder disease. Vaccinated people can be asymptomatic carriers of pertussis: infected, but no symptoms.
Therefore, it is not true that there is no precedent for the situation with the covid vaccines.
No one ever claimed that "natural immunity doesn't work." It will not 100% protect someone from getting infected with the virus again, though.
You are somewhat correct that some some vaccines now don't stop prevention or transmission. Many don't, like the flu or the shingles shot which isn't promised to stop infection or transmission. That is because we have been trained to believe all that. The only people promoting safe and effective are the vaccine companies and those being pushed by them.
Naturally immunity will protect someone from getting the same virus again. The viruses that adapt faster will always exist. It is why people will get the flu or common cold again and again...it isn't the exact same one but a mutated one years later. You could get a different strain if a lot different or you have a very weak immune system, but a person with natural immunity isn't getting the same virus again. Even this entire scam of continuing to call it covid 19 when that original virus has been long gone for a while.
Sars-cov-2 is part of the common cold family of viruses. It is a corona virus, which is the same part of the common cold. It isn't some completely new family of viruses. Respiratory viruses usually fall into influenza or common cold...with different types.
Even if no precedent, with thousands of years of viruses, why would we have evidence that natural immunity doesn't work, or that a virus would suddenly act completely opposite of what it normally does.
Just look at this, they treated this like it wasn't airborne, then was was, and now finally admitting it was aerosols...which masks don't stop. All at the same time saying it was sars-cov-2 when we already had sars-cov-1 back in early 2000.
SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus. It is not one of the strains associated with the common cold. It is more like the original SARS and MERS viruses.
Coronaviruses are not the only viruses that cause the set of symptoms that we refer to as a "cold". Adenoviruses and rhinoviruses also cause colds. There is no "common cold family of viruses."
No one has said "natural immunity" does not work, only that it is not absolute. Previous infection with earlier variants of SARS-CoV-2 will not provide 100% protection against later strains, such as omicron.
SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2 are not the same virus, so I do not know what your point is.
It took time to determine that SARS-CoV-2 spread by aerosols. That was determined back in 2020, so, no one is now "finally admitting" that it is.
Masks do not 100% block transmission; they reduce it, and some masks are better than others. They are intended to be used with other mitigation measures, including social distancing and hand washing, and they have to be worn and handled properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA
You are somewhat correct that some some vaccines now don't stop prevention or transmission. Many don't, like the flu or the shingles shot which isn't promised to stop infection or transmission. That is because we have been trained to believe all that. The only people promoting safe and effective are the vaccine companies and those being pushed by them.
Naturally immunity will protect someone from getting the same virus again. The viruses that adapt faster will always exist. It is why people will get the flu or common cold again and again...it isn't the exact same one but a mutated one years later. You could get a different strain if a lot different or you have a very weak immune system, but a person with natural immunity isn't getting the same virus again. Even this entire scam of continuing to call it covid 19 when that original virus has been long gone for a while.
The shingles shot is not intended to block transmission. You cannot give shingles to another person because you have to have previously been infected with the chickenpox virus to get it. If someone has not had chickenpox, he can get it from contact with fluid from shingles blisters.
The flu vaccine is a special case. The vaccine has to be designed against the strains predicted to be most probably circulating each season. Sometimes the predictions are good, sometimes not.
"Natural immunity" does not always protect someone from getting the same virus again, and it does not with covid-19. Having been infected with a previous variant is about 60% in preventing omicron infection.
It is still the same virus, just mutated to be slightly different but not enough to be called an entirely new one. COVID-19 is the disease, not the virus, by the way.
I experienced unexplained chest pain 2 days after the Moderna booster shot all testing showed no heart issues. I also had a much higher C-reactive protein then I did 5 months before the vaccines. Doctor speculates the vaccine caused some kind of inflammation. Due to the fact of other health issues I have I still would take the vaccine I can't afford to get serious case of Covid without a vaccine. The chest pain was intermittent sometimes while exercising on a treadmill it would modulate with the amount of exercising and as I reduced the speed it would go away. It took about 2 months for this intermittent chest pain to go away I got the booster in end of February by May it was gone I suspect the vaccine, but no way to prove it. It's going to take years to figure out all the side effects to the vaccine. I probalby won't get another booster unless we have high transmission rates of Covid again. I'm in my mid 50's so well outside of the typical age range of Myocarditis.
In the vaccinated, there is no such thing as being outside the typical age for myocarditis. There are teenagers developing myocarditis after the injections!!! And according to the symptoms you describe, that is likely what was causing your chest pain, with one of the big clues being that symptoms elevated when exercising. You didn’t mention whether your doctor did a D-dimer test? In any case, you should be very cautious, because contrary to the gaslighting BS these quacks are spewing, there is no such thing a mild myocarditis, anymore than there is mild brain damage. There are simply varying degrees of severity. Those who even say “mild myocarditis” should be castigated, and forever after, ignored. If you were a commercial airline pilot, even so called “mild” myocarditis is enough to permanently end your flying career, because heart damage is permanent. The heart does not generate fresh new functional tissue when damaged … instead, scar tissue replaces the damaged tissue. So, it’s a concern that needs to be monitored, and for god sake, do nothing that could lead to additional damage!
Be that as it may … the biggest problem you have at the moment is not residing in your cardiovascular system, which is just a consequence of the problem that came before it. And while it’s not my intention to anger or insult you, I’d rather that happen, than for you to continue placing your own life in jeopardy by making clearly irrational decisions out of fear and ignorance. That poses a much greater threat to you than any virus ever could.
And I don’t use the term “irrational” lightly, or without foundation. You suffered an adverse cardiac event due to these injections already, yet you say “I probably won’t get another booster unless we have high transmission rates of Covid again” ? Hello? The lights are on, but nobody seems to be at home! What are you thinking? Are you thinking? The obvious answer is no, you cannot possibly be thinking at all.
In order to impress upon you the depth of the unconscious problem you are dealing with, I’ll use an analogy … if I were to use a new aftershave lotion, and my face broke out in an itchy rash …. my normal response to such an occurrence would be quite rational and automatic … I’m not ever going to put that stuff on my face again! This is as natural a responses as breathing, and really shouldn’t require a great deal of consideration. OK?
Consequently, given the obvious and significant differences between an uncomfortable skin irritation and that of permanent heart damage, the response should be even more clear and rational ….. nothing remotely close to “I probably won’t … unless …”. Probably won’t, unless? Unless what? Unless some taking head liar comes on TV tomorrow and tells you to crank up that internal fear factor again, then maybe you’ll go ahead and subject yourself to another round of Russian Roulette?
The issue really boils down to suffering a form of brainwashing and hypnosis. The problem with that is, it’s tremendously difficult to get through to someone who is in such a state. Nevertheless, the greatest enemy you face is not a virus … it is the fear, and your response to it.
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