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Old 12-06-2022, 07:04 PM
 
2,443 posts, read 1,243,407 times
Reputation: 1657

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post

I paid $3.28 for premium at Costco today in NC. I'm sure the majority of CA is at least $5.50 a gallon for premium, if not higher.
You can't buy 10,000 gallons of NC gas and resell them in CA.
You'll be fined heavily for selling your "dirty" gas.
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Old 12-06-2022, 07:51 PM
 
15,217 posts, read 7,280,707 times
Reputation: 19165
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenze View Post
So, the governor will fine refineries for price gouging, so oil companies will have to close refineries or increase prices to cover the fine.



https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/05/go...ng-ripped-off/
What is an acceptable "maximum gross margin"?
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Old 12-06-2022, 08:50 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,889,408 times
Reputation: 15559
Oil companies lost so much money in 2020.

And truth -- the prices were low before 2020 and they were barely hanging on.....then 2020....they were hit hard.

Keystone XL announcement didn't do anything to hurt their immediate bottom line.....and as Canadian producers diverted to other pipelines, it is clear the actual physical need for the Keystone wasn't necessary.

So that's not why they chose to NOT try harder to ramp up production at a time when supply chains were broken....they chose to recover some of their losses (if not all) and to shore up their assets.

Was it unfair to the consumer.........it feels that way but in the same way -- was it fair for them to lose so much money & haveno opportunity to recover some of their losses.

I don't begrudge them their decision butI recognize their choice -- and they openly admitted to it. It was no secret.

Hoping now they will get back on track and try to bring the cost for consumers down.
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:25 PM
 
15,217 posts, read 7,280,707 times
Reputation: 19165
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Oil companies lost so much money in 2020.

And truth -- the prices were low before 2020 and they were barely hanging on.....then 2020....they were hit hard.

Keystone XL announcement didn't do anything to hurt their immediate bottom line.....and as Canadian producers diverted to other pipelines, it is clear the actual physical need for the Keystone wasn't necessary.

So that's not why they chose to NOT try harder to ramp up production at a time when supply chains were broken....they chose to recover some of their losses (if not all) and to shore up their assets.

Was it unfair to the consumer.........it feels that way but in the same way -- was it fair for them to lose so much money & haveno opportunity to recover some of their losses.

I don't begrudge them their decision butI recognize their choice -- and they openly admitted to it. It was no secret.

Hoping now they will get back on track and try to bring the cost for consumers down.
Don't conflate oil production profit and loss with oil refining profit and loss. There are times when refining makes a ton of money while production is losing, and the opposite also happens. The massive losses in 2020 were almost entirely on the production side of the industry. refining wasn't hit quite as hard.
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Old 12-07-2022, 06:54 AM
 
77,951 posts, read 60,120,250 times
Reputation: 49309
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Oil companies lost so much money in 2020.

And truth -- the prices were low before 2020 and they were barely hanging on.....then 2020....they were hit hard.

Keystone XL announcement didn't do anything to hurt their immediate bottom line.....and as Canadian producers diverted to other pipelines, it is clear the actual physical need for the Keystone wasn't necessary.

So that's not why they chose to NOT try harder to ramp up production at a time when supply chains were broken....they chose to recover some of their losses (if not all) and to shore up their assets.

Was it unfair to the consumer.........it feels that way but in the same way -- was it fair for them to lose so much money & haveno opportunity to recover some of their losses.

I don't begrudge them their decision butI recognize their choice -- and they openly admitted to it. It was no secret.

Hoping now they will get back on track and try to bring the cost for consumers down.
So, since this thread is about CA gas prices, is your thesis that CA should have built more refineries in the last year?

What was your real world solution to this CA issue?
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Old 12-07-2022, 08:29 AM
 
15,217 posts, read 7,280,707 times
Reputation: 19165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
So, since this thread is about CA gas prices, is your thesis that CA should have built more refineries in the last year?

What was your real world solution to this CA issue?
There is no real solution. California is an island when it comes to gasoline refining. If there are issues with refineries, then prices are going to spike and supplies will be tight, The state says this on its energy website https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repor...troleum-market

"Isolated Nature of the California Fuels Market
Under normal conditions, California refiners produce enough gasoline to meet demand inside the state. California refineries also export gasoline. When needed, the state typically imports gasoline via marine shipments, which usually take three to four weeks to deliver. The state’s prices must rise to secure these international imports via marine vessel to cover the additional delivery costs.

As a result of the state’s isolated fuels market, unplanned refinery outages requiring maintenance can significantly impact the state’s gasoline supply, usually resulting in temporary price spikes.
"

It is unlikely that any refiner will expand capacity in California. The demand outlook and economics make that a bad idea. That means that California will occasionally face fuel supply issues. Windfall profit taxes seldom work as intended, but serve as a disincentive instead. The oil companies can only hope that compliance with this legislation isn't as onerous as my first reading indicates.
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Old 12-07-2022, 08:48 AM
 
77,951 posts, read 60,120,250 times
Reputation: 49309
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
There is no real solution. California is an island when it comes to gasoline refining. If there are issues with refineries, then prices are going to spike and supplies will be tight, The state says this on its energy website https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repor...troleum-market

"Isolated Nature of the California Fuels Market
Under normal conditions, California refiners produce enough gasoline to meet demand inside the state. California refineries also export gasoline. When needed, the state typically imports gasoline via marine shipments, which usually take three to four weeks to deliver. The state’s prices must rise to secure these international imports via marine vessel to cover the additional delivery costs.

As a result of the state’s isolated fuels market, unplanned refinery outages requiring maintenance can significantly impact the state’s gasoline supply, usually resulting in temporary price spikes.
"

It is unlikely that any refiner will expand capacity in California. The demand outlook and economics make that a bad idea. That means that California will occasionally face fuel supply issues. Windfall profit taxes seldom work as intended, but serve as a disincentive instead. The oil companies can only hope that compliance with this legislation isn't as onerous as my first reading indicates.
The other poster is blaming the oil companies for not investing with regards to CA gas prices so I want to hear their solution that would have averted this.

It sounds like they're blaming US drilling and not CA refining capacity.

I for one find it doubtful, bordering on ludicrous that CA would have approved new refineries in the state, let alone approved and built within 18 months or less and also why there isn't more capacity in the first place.

Oh wait, this is the state that is trying to actively ban almost all gasoline usage in the next 10 years or so and has already done so in many ways.

So the state govt. is working on banning a product and then when there isn't enough supply they blame the suppliers. Gotta love politics and unthinking masses.
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Old 12-07-2022, 08:50 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
6,833 posts, read 3,562,320 times
Reputation: 4872
The State of California put the residents in this mess by making the state a fuel island.

The State of California also put the residents in an energy mess by creating an environment where companies like Enron could manipulate the energy market at California's expense. This led to the recall of governor Gray Davis in 2003.

Private industry is smarter than government and when they see a chance to increase profits they take it. It's the state's responsibility to mitigate corporate greed as it affects the residents.

California has failed miserably on this front time and time again.

You can blame the oil companies and you can blame the energy companies, but in the end the state failed to protect its residents, which is its #1 primary task and only legitimate reason to exist. IMO, that failure makes the state government illegitimate.
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Old 12-07-2022, 09:12 AM
 
77,951 posts, read 60,120,250 times
Reputation: 49309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattja View Post
The State of California put the residents in this mess by making the state a fuel island.

The State of California also put the residents in an energy mess by creating an environment where companies like Enron could manipulate the energy market at California's expense. This led to the recall of governor Gray Davis in 2003.

Private industry is smarter than government and when they see a chance to increase profits they take it. It's the state's responsibility to mitigate corporate greed as it affects the residents.

California has failed miserably on this front time and time again.

You can blame the oil companies and you can blame the energy companies, but in the end the state failed to protect its residents, which is its #1 primary task and only legitimate reason to exist. IMO, that failure makes the state government illegitimate.
The state pretty much controls just about every aspect of power and fuel generation within the state via regulation and pre-approval.

These are the same morons that almost shut down Diablo Canyon with no replacement source for 8% of their electrical power.

Then when things go wrong, it's everyone elses fault. 100% control, 0% accountability.

They've also managed to increase their electrical costs from about 30% higher than the national average to 100% in the past 10 years.
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Old 12-07-2022, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,754 posts, read 11,741,036 times
Reputation: 64097
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
Idiot Biden just canceled oil leases in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico. Biden is 100% the reason for high gas prices and inflation.
What about the nearly half of the oil leases being unused? Most of drilling leases are on private land, yet they aren't drilling? Why? Go research how the oil companies are catering to investors vs drilling for more oil. So you think the 3 oil leases being cancelled by king Biden who has ultimate power over private companies is the cause of higher gas prices? That's just low information koolaid my friend. Oh and the Keystone pipeline is alive and well, only one branch was cancelled.

Go research why oil companies have shifted away from drilling and are focusing on investors. This far more complex issue than 3 oil leases being cancelled.
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