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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 187 40.04%
No 235 50.32%
Unsure 45 9.64%
Voters: 467. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-13-2022, 01:25 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
Shelling civilians in Donetsk, yet Zelensky is saying he will never give up the Donbass, so he’s shelling his own people. This feels like Ukraine is flailing to me, they can’t use that ammo on military targets? They complain constantly to NATO for more weapons and ammo.
He doesn't want to give up the Donbass because of its resources. He doesn't give a crap about people in the Donbass, whom he doesn't consider Ukrainian, anyway, since they are pro-Russian. And people in the Donbass don't want to have anything to do with Ukraine, anymore.

Two days ago I read an interview with a young Ukrainian soldier, who said Ukraine should stop fighting because he realized that people in the Donbass have already made their choice in favor of Russia and nothing will undo that, to the contrary.

No idea about the ammo and why they are shooting at civilians rather than troops. Ukrainians have always been cowards that love to attack civilians and hide behind human shields. It is their pu*sy character I suppose...
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:30 PM
 
26,732 posts, read 22,400,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
Shelling civilians in Donetsk, yet Zelensky is saying he will never give up the Donbass, so he’s shelling his own people. This feels like Ukraine is flailing to me, they can’t use that ammo on military targets? They complain constantly to NATO for more weapons and ammo while they’re lobbing shells into civilian areas.

Not only that, but what I hear on "Free Europe" now is that Kiev claims that Donetsk is shelled by the RUSSIAN ARMY.
Oh the nerve.

Same sh*t Kiev was pulling during all these eight years, blaming LDNR militia in hitting their own buildings.


The amount of BS I've seen throughout these eight years from each and every direction, when it comes to Donbass is ASTOUNDING.
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,867,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
No idea about the ammo and why they are shooting at civilians rather than troops. Ukrainians have always been cowards that love to attack civilians and hide behind human shields. It is their pu*sy character I suppose...

Quite opposite, no one called a Ukrainian a coward. It's their training providing by NATO specialists I believe. Consistent with other terrorist groups, trained by the same teachers too.
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:39 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
Quite opposite, no one called a Ukrainian a coward. It's their training providing by NATO specialists I believe. Consistent with other terrorist groups, trained by the same teachers too.
There are two articles on this on Grayzone:
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/05/31/u...ssia-blowback/
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/05/31/a...rporate-media/

But still, many Ukrainians are cowards, especially the Nazis, not so much the regular canon fodder soldiers.
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,710,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
When you respond to them, I end up seeing their posts which I want to avoid.
I see your point.
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:46 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,126 posts, read 107,381,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
There is a paragraph on the use of the term genocide in this article by a Swiss colonel who worked for Nato in Ukraine himself:
Quote:
The dramatic developments we are witnessing today have causes that we knew about but refused to see:
- on the strategic level, the expansion of NATO (which we have not dealt with here);
- on the political level, the Western refusal to implement the Minsk Agreements;
- and operationally, the continuous and repeated attacks on the civilian population of the Donbass over the past years and the dramatic increase in late February 2022.

In other words, we can naturally deplore and condemn the Russian attack. But WE (that is: the United States, France and the European Union in the lead) have created the conditions for a conflict to break out. We show compassion for the Ukrainian people and the two million refugees. That is fine. But if we had had a modicum of compassion for the same number of refugees from the Ukrainian populations of Donbass massacred by their own government and who sought refuge in Russia for eight years, none of this would probably have happened.

Whether the term "genocide" applies to the abuses suffered by the people of Donbass is an open question. The term is generally reserved for cases of greater magnitude (Holocaust, etc.). But the definition given by the Genocide Convention is probably broad enough to apply to this case.
I'd like to know more about the bolded.

Here's the Wiki page on the Minsk agreements. Mostly it's about continued fighting from both sides in violation of the agreements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
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Old 06-13-2022, 02:01 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I'd like to know more about the bolded.

Here's the Wiki page on the Minsk agreements. Mostly it's about continued fighting from both sides in violation of the agreements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
A general remark: you can forget about Wiki when it comes to politics. Wiki is aligned with Washington. They employ full-time moderators and editors that push Washington's views.

Of course people in the Donbass will defend themselves when attacked.
Putin insisted again and again that everyone that signed those agreements force Kiev to actually implement them because he had hoped the Donbass would become autonomous within Ukraine (which is why Russia did not recognize the independence of those two republics for 8 years). But I remember that Macron openly said no because Kiev did not like them. Actually, nobody made a secret of it, Kiev also openly said they would not implement them.

And I think that because of that, Russia has no intention of negotiating anything. They might participate in negotiations to do Turkey a favor, but I doubt they will sign anything as long as the current regime in Kiev is not removed. There would be no point...
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Old 06-13-2022, 02:15 PM
 
26,732 posts, read 22,400,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I'd like to know more about the bolded.

Here's the Wiki page on the Minsk agreements. Mostly it's about continued fighting from both sides in violation of the agreements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

Ruth, since I don't have time at the moment - to make the long story short - Kiev was trying to change the provisions. The way they were originally proscribed didn't suit Kiev's interests.

That's why they refused to fulfill them.

Washington sided with Kiev in this refusal.

It was all outlined during the lengthy negotiations that preceded this war.
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Old 06-13-2022, 02:18 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,675,783 times
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Interesting animated chart on the import of Russian fossil resources by country, Russia has earned $1bn a day since the start of the invasion:

https://t.me/neuesausrussland/6724
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Old 06-13-2022, 02:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,675,783 times
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Funny how the word mercenary is increasingly being replaced by volunteer
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