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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.75%
No 242 50.63%
Unsure 46 9.62%
Voters: 478. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-17-2022, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,724,781 times
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Todays Update

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ssment-june-17

Quote:
Russian forces are continuing to deploy additional forces to support offensive operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, and Ukrainian defenses remain strong.

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that Russian forces will attack Ukrainian positions near Donetsk City but reiterated that the new tactic will require additional time during his address at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 17.

Putin stated that Russian forces will stop what he claimed is Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk City by attacking Ukrainian fortifications from the rear. Putin may have amplified reports of shelling of civilian areas of Donetsk City, which Ukrainian officials have denied, to discourage Western officials from supplying weapons to Ukraine.[5] Putin also declared that Russian forces will fully complete the “special military operation” in Ukraine, and noted that Russian and proxy forces will intensify counter-battery combat.[6] Putin urged Russian forces to refrain from entirely destroying cities that they aim to “liberate," ignoring the destruction Russian forces have inflicted on Ukrainian cities and the artillery-heavy tactics Russian forces are currently employing in Severodonetsk.

Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources report that the Kremlin fired the Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to mass casualties among Russian paratroopers.
Key Takeaways

Quote:
Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful ground assaults against Severodonetsk and its southeastern outskirts on June 17.

Russian forces continued efforts to sever Ukrainian lines of communication to Lysychansk, both from the north toward Slovyansk and in the south near Bakhmut.

Ukrainian forces are likely conducting a counteroffensive northwest of Izyum intended to draw Russian forces away from offensive operations toward Slovyansk and disrupt Russian supply lines and are making minor gains.

Ukrainian forces and aviation continued to strike Russian logistics and fortifications in occupied settlements along the Southern Axis, with localized fighting ongoing.

Russian forces continued to regroup and transfer personnel within Zaporizhia Oblast to maintain defensive positions along the frontline.

Russian President Putin reaffirmed his commitment to “completing” the Russian operation in Ukraine but acknowledged that unspecified new Russian tactics (which are likely simply explanations for poor Russian performance) will take time.

Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources reported that the Kremlin fired the commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to poor performance.
Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin implied that Russian-occupied settlements will hold referendums to join Russia during his address to the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 17.[38] Putin said that Russian-occupied settlements will determine their own future and that the Kremlin will “respect any of their choices.” Putin also blamed Ukraine for threatening a food crisis in Africa and the Middle East, claiming that Ukrainian forces placed mines around ports and stopped grain exports.[39] However, the Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported spotting another ten Russian trucks filled with Ukrainian grain heading from Melitopol to Crimea on June 16
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Old 06-17-2022, 08:18 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,358,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
It's gotten that bad we have to celebrate the sinking of tugboat. Seriously it's a tug boat. The Ukrainian PR team is unreal.
carrying supplies for snake Island, with a $25 million dollar air defense system strapped on. And we got to see how it did against a US military weapon designed for it. Turns out, not too great.
edit to add-foriegn supplied harpoon. The US did not provide these is my understanding. But US designed.

Last edited by greywar; 06-17-2022 at 08:29 PM..
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Old 06-17-2022, 08:49 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,872,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
carrying supplies for snake Island, with a $25 million dollar air defense system strapped on. And we got to see how it did against a US military weapon designed for it. Turns out, not too great.
edit to add-foriegn supplied harpoon. The US did not provide these is my understanding. But US designed.
I think it was Danish supplied.
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Old 06-17-2022, 08:56 PM
 
4,951 posts, read 2,706,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Russians under bombardment too

Ukraine Update: Russians are suffering from artillery barrages too, and a battlefield overview

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...field-overview

The Ukrainians are vulnerable right now because they running through their old soviet artillery and getting new western weapons in place. Russia still can't move more than 1 km at a time without their supply lines getting clobbered.
Of course the Russians are under bombardment as well, at a rate of 6,000 shells a day. But the Ukrainians are bombarded by an average of 50,000 to 60,000 shells a day. And how have the Ukrainian offensives fared these past few weeks?
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:03 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,358,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Of course the Russians are under bombardment as well, at a rate of 6,000 shells a day. But the Ukrainians are bombarded by an average of 50,000 to 60,000 shells a day. And how have the Ukrainian offensives fared these past few weeks?
Not too bad, and theyre about to get some new weapons on the battlefield. Those harpoons are a example.

Hey. Anyone else remember the unmanned coastel defense vessels in the first batch? Has anyone seen anything on them? At all?
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:16 PM
 
4,951 posts, read 2,706,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Not too bad, and theyre about to get some new weapons on the battlefield. Those harpoons are a example.

Hey. Anyone else remember the unmanned coastel defense vessels in the first batch? Has anyone seen anything on them? At all?
The Ukrainian offensives failed. Failed miserably. And for weeks now the talk was that the new NATO weapons were supposed to turn the tide and have the Russians fold and run back to Russia. Didn't happen. I'm not holding my breath on any new weapons turning this around in the future either. Well, maybe another Russian tugboat gets destroyed.
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:17 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,774,686 times
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Russian and China bots are playing into the nuclear fear, which is really Putin's bluff. Being ex-KGB means Putin is a calculating man, not a suicidal maniac. He is also a very rich man. He won't risk losing it all. He has been pushing to see how far the West will let him. That's what bullies do. Once someone smacks him down, he will run to a corner and whimper.

What's even more laughable is the propaganda that Ukrainian giving up their country to a tyrant is the right thing to do. These bots literally regurgitate Russian propaganda straight from Russian state media. Unfortunately for them, no one with half a brain is buying their BS.

Imagine a rapist saying to his victim: don't fight me, don't get help, don't scream and I will let you stay with me and get raped forever.
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:41 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 863,761 times
Reputation: 2573
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
carrying supplies for snake Island, with a $25 million dollar air defense system strapped on. And we got to see how it did against a US military weapon designed for it. Turns out, not too great.
edit to add-foriegn supplied harpoon. The US did not provide these is my understanding. But US designed.
We will go with that. The tugboat was equipped with a $25 million dollar air defense system. That is one very protected tugboat.
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:48 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,872,387 times
Reputation: 5815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
We will go with that. The tugboat was equipped with a $25 million dollar air defense system. That is one very protected tugboat.
LOL “It was a tugboat.” After the comical attempted coverup of the Moskva sinking (“it was a fire on board” and “the sailors were all rescued”) who would believe ANYTHING coming from the Russian side.

Personally, tugboat or whatever, if it’s Russian and they are blowing it up I am happy.
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:55 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 863,761 times
Reputation: 2573
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Not too bad, and theyre about to get some new weapons on the battlefield. Those harpoons are a example.

Hey. Anyone else remember the unmanned coastel defense vessels in the first batch? Has anyone seen anything on them? At all?
We have heard this line before. What is this the 700th round of weapons that are supposed to change things and drive the Russians back? A Harpoon is a very capable weapon no doubt. It's been around since the 70s so it not exactly revolutionary. The fact such an expensive weapon was aimed at tug boat is a bit concerning, but then again they complain about the lack of weapons every week so this is par the course. I suspect they targeted the tugboat for 2 reasons. One, harpoon missiles have a max range of 150 - 200 miles. The tugboat was probably the only ship venturing close enough to the Ukrainian coast. Number 2, they needed the PR. The news has finally caught up to the fact the Ukrainians aren't doing so good. Got to show Western population that their weapons' are being put to good use. Calling it a supply ship instead of a tugboat is a good PR move.
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