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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.58%
No 244 50.83%
Unsure 46 9.58%
Voters: 480. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-28-2022, 10:38 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728

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An interesting comment regarding yesterday's shopping center incident:


Quote:
I was a contractor building stores in malls for 30 years.

The lack of cars around the mall is the first clue that it wasn't operating at the time. Normally shoppers park as close as possible to the mall entrances and delivery trucks and contractors are competing for any allowable space adjacent to the fire lanes around the mall. Mall security is constantly patrolling the fire lanes kicking out offending drivers. I know this is the Ukraine however people are people and they act the same all over the world.

The second are the amount of flames produced by the mall fire. Malls all over the world have sprinkler systems, fire separations and are built with materials that have a low flame spread rating. The sprinkler systems are always fully charged with water so that even if the missile took out the main the sprinklers would still put out fires ignited by the blast. Burning contents produces a smoky fire with little flame. This fire looks like something you would see at a lumber yard or oil refinery. It look like the contents of this mall were extremely flammable.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:46 AM
 
4,948 posts, read 3,055,358 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
More and more countries are trading in their own currencies and avoiding both dollar and euro.

The role of money, well, interesting times with regard to that question. This is a decisive time as Russia is leaving its radical capitalist phase behind it and China also brings new priorities and attitudes to the world. Of course money is important, has been for thousands of years, but we are rediscovering more important things now. And the West with its psychopathic ways is losing ground.

More countries trade with our currency than any other, and the reason the DXY remains strong.
I am thankful there are 2 oceans separating us from Europe, as the "psychopathic" Russian constitution allows for use of nuclear weapons.
May I inquire as to what country you reside?.
The best possible outcome on this situation is for east to simply divide from the west, then we can go back to making our own products; as trading with China was a huge mistake from day 1.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,728,246 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
Sophistry.

When you get narratives that have spin, you need to assemble the truth from the various bits and pieces that you will need to cross reference.

Are you saying just trust CNN lol? No. American media orgs are complete and utter garbage, if I watch them it’s for entertainment.

I prefer a mixture of sources. Al Jazeera is maybe the most unbiased here in this conflict. But you always need and should glance at RT then Ukrainian sources then British then French and last of all: American. Because Americans are the dumbest and most clueless of all the people, American media has painted such a silly cartoon version of this war.

China is another good source.
I have been following Al Jazeera and BBC and their coverage is similar almost identical to western sources. But to your point...yes.....one needs to consume multiple sources domestic and international to get well rounded understanding of this war. What I look for is "ommission" and RT trumps all other news sources on that...but that's because those journalists could go to prison.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:57 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
They’re precisely doing that - look up TNI (Trusted News Initiative). Also BBC is a government mouthpiece.

Do you think CNN turns a profit? Lol.
Just because a reporter is in another country does not mean they are investigating independently.
These days for instance there are Western reporters in Ukraine, but just like Western politicians jetting to Kiev, they only communicate with pro-Ukraine people, they don't visit the Donbass or Crimea, they don't talk to people there. In other words, they deliberately produce one-sided biased articles.

And of course those pro-Ukraine people will tell all Western journalists the same lies and propaganda, so naturally Western news outlets will produce the same content.
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Old 06-28-2022, 11:16 AM
 
5,731 posts, read 2,192,961 times
Reputation: 3877
Let’s get real, sanctions didn’t have the intended effect and we are getting blowback with higher prices, Ukraine won’t retake lost territory and they continue to lose more each week. Western weapons are not and will not stop Russia as Ukraine losses massive manpower. Is there a plan b or just double down on failed strategies? Negotiations should be the obvious plan b, but not sure western leaders can first admit their actions so far haven’t worked as intended.
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Old 06-28-2022, 11:31 AM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Hehe, they probably didn't expect surveillance cams to be there...
Those show the hit at the factory right next to the little pond:

https://t.me/Ubersicht_Ukraine_Kanal/11205
https://t.me/Ubersicht_Ukraine_Kanal/11209

The factory was used for storing ammo and weapons, obviously a whole lot of it since the explosion was so strong that it also damaged the shopping center which is at quite a distance, about 400m judging from Google Maps:
That little pond is where it says Misky with the green marker at the top, the shopping is the white object with the big red marker at the bottom, the big factory in between:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D...6!4d33.4247351



Speaking of Google Maps, by the morning they had still not changed the Permanently Closed label for the shopping center, but at noon it said Open in order to suggest the shopping center had not been permanently closed for 3 months

https://t.me/sputnik/7567?comment=346589

And the number of reviews is 1 lower than in the morning, maybe someone wrote something that contradicted the narrative...

Confirmed.

Indeed the factory that was behind the shopping mall was hit. ( And apparently it was the original target.)
Which can be indirectly confirmed by this Ukrainian blogger/politician posting from EU.

Approximately at 5:42 there is a video that was taken approximately eight minutes after the explosion ( or rather after the fire started in the shopping mall.)
People that were there are talking about the huge explosion that was heard ( the glass was shuttered on the other side of the street. I think this would account for the explosion at the factory ( the rocket crater that was left was huge there - I saw it in another video.)
Another thing - by the look of the aftermath scene at the shopping mall - this is still not indicative of the "thousand people" being there.

If they were there, you'd see crowds rushing out ( women/children including.)
That is even if we'll accept the version that "there are no cars at the parking lot because gas is practically not available in Ukraine for the regular drivers at this point.")
Still.

Huge fire, "thousand of people in the shopping mall" and still no crowds rushing out?

This doesn't add up.

My guess is, this shopping mall was only partially operational ( may be few little stores in certain part of the building.) The rest of it was used for different purpose - MAY BE some kind of storage.

Because - yes, the smoke coming out of there is uncharacteristic for your regular shopping mall.

Plus you can hear the sound of something detonating there by the end of the video.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQTxbOmcWdY
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Old 06-28-2022, 11:42 AM
bu2
 
24,101 posts, read 14,885,315 times
Reputation: 12934
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
Let’s get real, sanctions didn’t have the intended effect and we are getting blowback with higher prices, Ukraine won’t retake lost territory and they continue to lose more each week. Western weapons are not and will not stop Russia as Ukraine losses massive manpower. Is there a plan b or just double down on failed strategies? Negotiations should be the obvious plan b, but not sure western leaders can first admit their actions so far haven’t worked as intended.
Sanctions are hurting Russia. Nobody ever thought it would stop them in their tracks. The higher prices are for a lot of reasons. At least in the US almost none of that has anything to do with the sanctions. Its the fact that there is a war disrupting supplies.

Ukraine has driven Russia back tremendously over the last 3 months. They are currently losing land slowly in the east, but gaining elsewhere.

And whether Ukraine will be able to drive Russia back? Russia has never been serious about negotiations, only surrender. They need to be totally stopped before they will get serious. 2 months ago, Ukraine said there would be no chance for an offensive before the end of June when weapons supplies had come in and their troops trained. So we'll see if Ukraine can drive them back. Or if they just have to bleed Russia dry for a decade to get their land back. Afghanistan did it in a more one sided conflict.
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Old 06-28-2022, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,891,624 times
Reputation: 2972
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's View Post
^^^^no need for that..no surrender...just send more and better weapons and newer planes..
And soldiers, and accept Ukraine as 51st state and vote Zelensky the next US President and make Ukrainian the official language of United States of America & Ukraine.
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Old 06-28-2022, 11:58 AM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Just because a reporter is in another country does not mean they are investigating independently.
These days for instance there are Western reporters in Ukraine, but just like Western politicians jetting to Kiev, they only communicate with pro-Ukraine people, they don't visit the Donbass or Crimea, they don't talk to people there. In other words, they deliberately produce one-sided biased articles.

And of course those pro-Ukraine people will tell all Western journalists the same lies and propaganda, so naturally Western news outlets will produce the same content.

When the French TV crew arrived to Lisichansk few days ago, they were shocked to learn that people that refused to evacuate ( about 15,000 of them) are actually waiting for the Russian army to come. They are willing to risk their lives under shelling, and are scornful of Ukrainian army that is trying to move them out of there.
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Old 06-28-2022, 12:25 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
More countries trade with our currency than any other, and the reason the DXY remains strong.
I am thankful there are 2 oceans separating us from Europe, as the "psychopathic" Russian constitution allows for use of nuclear weapons.
May I inquire as to what country you reside?.
The best possible outcome on this situation is for east to simply divide from the west, then we can go back to making our own products; as trading with China was a huge mistake from day 1.

I read yesterday that the BRICS will create a new reserve currency. But even without that the dollar and euro are losing ground because the world no longer trusts the West because of illegal sanctions, confiscations etc.

Huh?! I don't know any country that has nukes and whose constitution forbids their use.

I live in Portugal, but hope to move away from here soon.

I actually agree, there might be a split world in the future, West vs Global South more or less.
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