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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.67%
No 243 50.73%
Unsure 46 9.60%
Voters: 479. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-13-2022, 10:55 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 5,329,722 times
Reputation: 2967

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I've never seen anyone say they think it likely they will win, and I watch what you would call liberal news stations. The free world is rooting for them to win, but I think everyone understood from the beginning that would be an uphill battle.
Respectfully, you may have missed a few stories, then. The mainstream media went out of its way to highlight Ukrainian fighting prowess and Russian clumsiness early on, but certain stories were proven to be lies (stories highlighting Ukrainian victories and heroism).

As for "free world," that's a lie given to you by your sources, and it is a logical consequence of how you've been a victim of gaslighting. You have been told evil, tyrannical, and despotic Russia has attacked a smaller, peace-loving, and democratic country.

Ukraine's leadership has in the past few months moved to silence dissent; opposition parties have been shut down or at least limited in how much they can speak and operate. Ukraine's government is shamelessly and profoundly corrupt, and the 2014 Maidan protests violated the constitution both in the parliamentary vote count required to impeach President Viktor Yanukovych as well as in the post-coup proclamations out of Kiev which warned against the use of the Russian language by residents of Ukraine's far east.

"Free world" is simply a slogan bereft of meaning and which ignores the facts on the ground and the history of the region, and it's used to impart a sense of moral superiority.

You yourself are in all likelihood a decent individual who wishes no harm on anybody, but the same can't be said of the leaders of the "free world" who are perpetuating war, essentially forcing Ukraine to "fight to the last Ukrainian," by sending billions in weaponry. This is simply a prolongation of a war Ukraine cannot possibly win, and the "free world's" objective here is to bleed and to weaken Russia in what is a proxy war. The real-world suffering of Ukrainian and Russian people, military or civilian, means nothing to the leaders of the "free world."

The war will end at one point and all of the losses on both sides will be mourned, but they could have been prevented if draft peace treaties offered by Russia to the leaders of the "free world" in high-level talks in December and January had been accepted and the terms followed. I do wonder if your sources mentioned those draft treaties to you.
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Old 07-13-2022, 10:58 AM
 
50,768 posts, read 36,458,112 times
Reputation: 76566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
Respectfully, you may have missed a few stories, then. The mainstream media went out of its way to highlight Ukrainian fighting prowess and Russian clumsiness early on, but certain stories were proven to be lies (stories highlighting Ukrainian victories and heroism).

As for "free world," that's a lie given to you by your sources, and it is a logical consequence of how you've been a victim of gaslighting. You have been told evil, tyrannical, and despotic Russia has attacked a smaller, peace-loving, and democratic country.

Ukraine's leadership has in the past few months moved to silence dissent; opposition parties have been shut down or at least limited in how much they can speak and operate. Ukraine's government is shamelessly and profoundly corrupt, and the 2014 Maidan protests violated the constitution both in the parliamentary vote count required to impeach President Viktor Yanukovych as well as in the post-coup proclamations out of Kiev which warned against the use of the Russian language by residents of Ukraine's far east.

"Free world" is simply a slogan bereft of meaning and which ignores the facts on the ground and the history of the region, and it's used to impart a sense of moral superiority.

You yourself are in all likelihood a decent individual who wishes no harm on anybody, but the same can't be said of the leaders of the "free world" who are perpetuating war, essentially forcing Ukraine to "fight to the last Ukrainian," by sending billions in weaponry. This is simply a prolongation of a war Ukraine cannot possibly win, and the "free world's" objective here is to bleed and to weaken Russia in what is a proxy war. The real-world suffering of Ukrainian and Russian people, military or civilian, means nothing to the leaders of the "free world."

The war will end at one point and all of the losses on both sides will be mourned, but they could have been prevented if draft peace treaties offered by Russia to the leaders of the "free world" in high-level talks in December and January had been accepted and the terms followed. I do wonder if your sources mentioned those draft treaties to you.
They weren't making predictions though, more akin to play by play of a football game. There WAS a lot on=f ineptness early on, and Ukraine did have some victories. But I never heard them predict outright that Ukraine would win the war. By all accounts most people think the war will go on for years.

I think you're the one being lied to.
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Old 07-13-2022, 10:59 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 5,329,722 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I think you're the one being lied to.
No refutations, no counterarguments.... I understand.

Think more.
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Old 07-13-2022, 11:52 AM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,780,861 times
Reputation: 10871
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Id disagree, Irans been making some decent drones. They aren't like what you can get from the US military, but they've spent some solid time developing them. And they're better then what Russia has. Which is saying nothing good for Russia obviously.

The devil of course is in the details. But this is good news for Russia as they desperately need them, but its also a clear indication that Russia is no longer a superpower.
Sometimes it's cheaper for a superpower to buy weapons from another country. The USA has bought weapons from Israel, Sweden, Norway, etc.

I don't know why some people think that only the USA can make great products. In the 60's they laughed at the Japanese for making bad cars. Japan eventually beat the US at making quality cars.

Recently they have been laughing at the Chinese for making bad products. China can make high tech stuff for much less that the US can. They have sent rovers to the moon and Mars. They built their own space station. They built the world's largest radio telescope.

The Russian invasion makes some people think that Russia can not make great products. That's not true. Their problems are corruption and mismanagement, not lack of talent or technical know-how. Until recently US astronauts had to pay Russia for a ride to the IS. US companies paid Russia for the IP of the F-35 technology.

It's shortsighted and arrogant to think that no other country can make quality products.
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Old 07-13-2022, 12:02 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
It looks like it is going to be a long summer for the Russians. If Ukraine is to take back any occupied territory it will need to happen prior to winter setting in. The effects of these very accurate long range artillery equipment is definitely changing the equation....especially with Russia taking an operational pause right now....what's that about??

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/st...42746745962497
It looks like it's going to be a long summer for the Ukrainians.

Conscripts are being given call-up papers on the beaches of Ukraine as Volodymir Zelensky army suffers heavy losses.


"Like many of his male friends, Serhiy no longer leaves his home in western Ukraine for fear of being sent to the front line to replace soldiers killed or injured in the fight against Russia.
The construction worker spends his days hiding from military officials serving call-up papers at bars, beaches, checkpoints, malls and even church services.


...Like many of his male friends, Serhiy no longer leaves his home in western Ukraine for fear of being sent to the front line to replace soldiers killed or injured in the fight against Russia.
The construction worker spends his days hiding from military officials serving call-up papers at bars, beaches, checkpoints, malls and even church services."


...This restriction of movement for men aged 18 to 60 was criticised by President Volodymyr Zelensky and revoked, but it highlights the struggle for a nation suffering more than 20,000 casualties a month – officials admit up to 200 troops are killed and 800 wounded daily."

And what is the worse - the women call ups are already in line for October.

Then Russian men in the army will be forced to kill Ukrainian women.

But keep on getting excited about those HIMARS, their precision, and how many more people they can kill.

Last edited by erasure; 07-13-2022 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 07-13-2022, 12:17 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10038
In other news, coming from that abyss called nazi Ukraine - 25,000 people in Odessa sent petition to Zelensky with request to replace the monument of Catherine the Great ( the founder of the city) with the monument to American porn star Billy Herrington.


For everyone to know, apparently, that "Odessa is Ukraine."
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Old 07-13-2022, 12:23 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,780,861 times
Reputation: 10871
I like watching Russian ammo warehouses blown up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkzvcxtc10
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Old 07-13-2022, 02:17 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,365,659 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
I like watching Russian ammo warehouses blown up.
Check this one out then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AH2PSqrD2o

The fact that a week into the destruction of the ammo dumps began that Ukraines is still hitting them is stunningly incompetent of Russia. I expected they would have moved them by now. Nope!
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Old 07-13-2022, 02:39 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,569 posts, read 17,275,200 times
Reputation: 37295
Ammo dumps would be hard to hide. They're kinda big and with trucks and rail cars constantly delivering supplies it would make a big footprint.
So Ukraine, newly armed with better stuff, is pounding away. Makes a pretty good fireworks show. Gotta feel sorry for poor Ivan, who just received orders to go stand watch at the ammo dump.


Ukraine is armed to the teeth with shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, so the Russia air force pretty much stays home. NATO planes, which monitor the skies, notify Ukraine of incoming Russia aircraft.


Kill Chain reaction: That's the time lag between spotting a target and hitting it with some sort of weapon. In Iraq, the US shortened its kill chain tie to less than one hour. When Hussein was thought to be at a restaurant it was hit within that hour. Russian kill chain time is closer to one day. That's why they have to hit apartment complexes which do not move around. It all centers around who has the authority to launch a strike and what equipment he has at his disposal.
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Old 07-13-2022, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,680 posts, read 5,526,207 times
Reputation: 8817
Russian Black Sea Oil Rig That Ukraine Attacked 3 Weeks Ago Still Burning
Quote:
Neutralizing the gas platform's production was less important to the Ukrainians than demonstrating that they now have the capability to hit any Russian ship - or military target - in the Black Sea. The result is that Russia's blockade of Ukrainian ports is effectively ended. As of yesterday, 18 foreign ships were either loading or waiting to load grain for export in Ukrainian ports, primarily near the Danube estuary.
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