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I often wonder how brainwashed the average Russian citizen is? Are they as bad as N Koreans? Do they literally worship their exalted leader as all knowing and all powerful?
Personally I'd like to think that the younger generation of Russians know that Putin is an egomaniac that is screwing up their whole country because of his ego and greed.
I don't care what BS propaganda that he's spewing out... time will show how bad off the economy will be for Russia in 2023 and onwards.
Various videos have been posted on earlier Ukraine threads, of interviews taken on the street with random people. The the young ones mostly were forthcoming with their opinions, which aligned with your expectations. Some of the older people declined to be interviewed.
There was one video that interviewed a middle-aged woman scholar: a university professor or researcher, who said frankly, that she had thought in the last 20 years or more, that the country was heading in the right direction. She believed, that her generation was building something positive, and society was evolving in a good direction. She said she was shocked and dismayed with the invasion (I don't recall what terms she used to refer to it). It made her question everything she'd worked for. Made her feel like she'd been believing in some fantasy. She was struggling with major disillusionment.
You have to bear in mind the context of the times older people have lived through.
***The 80's: Gorbachev, and his "openness". It was revolutionary (even before its unintended consequences leading to the breakup of the entire Soviet system). People were free to say anything and discuss anything publicly.
***The 90's: Yeltsin, who was too preoccupied with getting the economy back on its feet (and failing at it) to pay much attention to other matters. People continued with the Gorby-era "Openness" in how they expressed their opinions. Some Native peoples felt tremendous freedom in asserting their self-determination, taking control of their republics out of Russian hands. One such republic actually voted on secession, but decided to postpone it until they were able to put an economic development plan in place. THere was tremendous (and what turned out to be unrealistic) hope for the future on the part of the ethnic republics.
But everyone was suddenly free to travel abroad. Those who could hook up with academic institutions, non-profits, and other sponsors took full advantage of this new freedom. People at all levels were free to associate with foreigners and receive them in their homes or offices, and to collaborate with them on projects, publications, exchanges, whatever. No KGB kept track or required approval.
***The "Oughts": Putin. He spent the decade investing in basic infrastructure development, that had been greatly neglected in the Soviet Era. He didn't interfere with the "openness", except in the area of ethnic politics and ethnic education, where he clamped down. (Some of this began in the second half of the Yeltsin admin.) It was clear there was a fear in Moscow of losing more territory to independence movements (which didn't exist, except potentially in the far north/northeast.) The general public felt the country was starting to recover economically. The tax structure was reformed to encourage private enterprise. There were glimmers of hope for the future. Salaries and the standard of living began to improve.
***The early 2010's The Medvedev Presidency. He was regarded as more liberal, which encouraged people to believe the country was liberalizing, and heading toward a brighter future.
So you can see how for several decades people felt freer. Some felt the freedom didn't mean much in the collapsed economy of the 90's, but that finally began to improve after Yeltsin, while the freedoms remained, for the most part. This is how hope for the future, a sense of building a new country that had abandoned Soviet-era restrictions, could be born and nurtured.
But then, with election challenges to Putin's hold on power, things began to take a more negative turn. It may not have touched the lives of most people at the time, like the academician mentioned earlier, who felt completely blindsided by the Ukraine war and subsequent restrictions on speech. But the writing was on the wall for keen observers.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-15-2022 at 11:10 AM..
Conventional wisdom states that Russia should have rolled over Ukraine within weeks.
In order to understand Russia's dismal failure in taking Ukraine by storm, it is necessary to understand the culture of corruption within Russia under Putin.
They are one and the same problem. The Russian military reflects the society at large and societal norms under a kleptocracy. The military hierarchy reflects the government hierarchy.
And these are the people who have entrusted absolute power to declare war in the hands of a deeply flawed, corrupt man.
Now poor Russians, Buryats and others have to die needless terrible deaths.
Conventional wisdom states that Russia should have rolled over Ukraine within weeks.
In order to understand Russia's dismal failure in taking Ukraine by storm, it is necessary to understand the culture of corruption within Russia under Putin.
They are one and the same problem. The Russian military reflects the society at large and societal norms under a kleptocracy. The military hierarchy reflects the government hierarchy.
And these are the people who have entrusted absolute power to declare war in the hands of a deeply flawed, corrupt man.
Now poor Russians, Buryats and others have to die needless terrible deaths.
He's right, though; "conventional wisdom" would lead not only "Moscow" but the West to expect Russia to roll over Ukraine in a matter of weeks. Although the West did expect independent Ukraine to put up a fight (once western Europe woke up and realized Russia was serious about invading), it didn't expect such a long drawn-out resistance, nor did it expect to get involved, at first.
I often wonder how brainwashed the average Russian citizen is? Are they as bad as N Koreans? Do they literally worship their exalted leader as all knowing and all powerful?
Personally I'd like to think that the younger generation of Russians know that Putin is an egomaniac that is screwing up their whole country because of his ego and greed.
I don't care what BS propaganda that he's spewing out... time will show how bad off the economy will be for Russia in 2023 and onwards.
Russians tend to be educated. The control over access to the outside world is not nearly as strong. Russians, prior to the war, did travel.
Putin has the most support among the older people who had safe, adequate lives under the USSR and then remember the chaos right after the fall of the USSR when communist officials stole everything they could and became wealthy while normal people struggled. Putin came in with a rise in oil prices and living standards increased. As James Carville said, "its the economy, stupid." Things became better under Putin.
There's also a void for those people. Everything they were told and believed in under communism was proven to be a lie. Their "faith" was in a failed ideology. For all the talk about Nazis in Ukraine, Russia is one of the most Fascist countries in the world now. And they do hear lies over and over and many believe them. Without getting sidetracked, you can see the same in the US where many on both the left and right have believed ridiculous stories that get repeated by the media they most often consume.
Dang.
My wife was watching over my shoulder and listening intently. She had never been much interested in the war so I was surprised.
OK. The guy looks a little like I did maybe 30 years ago. So she asks, "Do you think he wears blue contacts?"
I'm OK as long as she doesn't ask me to start talking about "willages" in Ukraine and talk about what is "wery, wery important."
Man's gotta draw the line somewhere.
He's right, though; "conventional wisdom" would lead not only "Moscow" but the West to expect Russia to roll over Ukraine in a matter of weeks. Although the West did expect independent Ukraine to put up a fight (once western Europe woke up and realized Russia was serious about invading), it didn't expect such a long drawn-out resistance, nor did it expect to get involved, at first.
Conventional wisdom would have also expected the US to roll over Vietnam in a matter of weeks during that conflict, especially given North Vietnam's tiny size compared to the US. But it took years before North Vietnam was conquered. Oh wait, correction, North Vietnam won that war and the US was chased out.
As for the Ukraine conflict, US forces would not have been able to defeat Ukraine in a matter of weeks either. Many posters here keep conveniently forgetting that the Ukrainian held side of Donbas had been heavily fortified over the last 8 years. No military from any country could have rolled over those fortifications in just a few weeks unless they used nukes to blast through. And the military requirements call for at least a 3:1 numerical advantage for an attacking force to have any measure of success against a defender. Yet the Russians attacked with a 1:2 numerical inferiority! Yet here they are, advancing steadily.
... Many posters here keep conveniently forgetting that the Ukrainian held side of Donbas had been heavily fortified over the last 8 years. No military from any country could have rolled over those fortifications in just a few weeks unless they used nukes to blast through. ....
But the Russians attacked from many directions, including from Belarus, far through the Donbas. They could easily have encircled the 'fortifications' you refer to, and definitely tried to do so, yet they failed completely.
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