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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.58%
No 244 50.83%
Unsure 46 9.58%
Voters: 480. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2022, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
908 posts, read 441,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
While there is truth in the last paragraph, there IS an evil in this war. What Russia is doing to Ukraine and its citizens hasn't been done by advanced nations since WWII. If this was a war of equals, Russia would face a Nuremberg after the war. Unfortunately, only those Russians who get killed in the fighting will get punished for their war crimes.


Can we be sure that Russia is committing an unprecedented amount of war crimes though ?


Does it make sense to pass such judgement before any sort of ICC like proceedings occur ?


Isn't casting Russians as barbarian orcs the flip side of casting Ukrainians as evil Nazis ?
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Old 08-23-2022, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,728,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william blakeley View Post
can we be sure that russia is committing an unprecedented amount of war crimes though ?


Does it make sense to pass such judgement before any sort of icc like proceedings occur ?


Isn't casting russians as barbarian orcs the flip side of casting ukrainians as evil nazis ?
No!

Why do you think the US is united in support of Ukraine....there is No ambiguity! The majority of Russians support this invasion/war and Putin.

Last edited by JohnBoy64; 08-23-2022 at 07:50 PM..
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Old 08-23-2022, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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Todays Update

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ment-august-23

Quote:
Russian government sources confirmed that Russia is bringing Ukrainian children to Russia and having Russian families adopt them.

Russian federal subject (region) Krasnodar Krai’s Family and Childhood Administration posted about a program under which Russian authorities transferred over 1,000 children from Mariupol to Tyumen, Irkutsk, Kemerov, and Altay Krai where Russian families have adopted them.[1] The Administration stated that over 300 children are still waiting to “meet their new families†and that citizens who decide to adopt these children will be provided with a one-time bonus by the state.[2] Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) additionally reported that Russian officials transferred 30 Ukrainian children from Khartsyzk, Ilovaysk, and Zuhres in occupied Donetsk Oblast to Nizhny Novgorod under the guise of having the children participate in youth educational-training programs.[3] The forcible transfer of children of one group to another “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group“ is a violation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

Russian authorities are deploying security forces to Luhansk Oblast likely in response to waning support for the war and growing unwillingness to fight among Luhansk residents.

Russian authorities’ deployment of Rosgvardia elements to security duties in occupied Luhansk Oblast diverts these forces from operations elsewhere in Ukraine, likely contributing to the broader Russian failure to translate limited tactical gains into operational successes.

Russian officials may have conducted a false flag event in Donetsk City on August 23 to justify attacks against Ukrainian government buildings on August 24, Ukrainian Independence Day.

Unverifiable sources reported that axis commanders in Ukraine are reporting directly to Russian President Vladimir Putin, bypassing both the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and Chief of General Staff Valery Gerasimov in the chain of command
Key Takeaways

Quote:
Russian government sources confirmed that Russian authorities are bringing Ukrainian children to Russia and having Russian families adopt them. The forcible transfer of children from one group to another “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group†is a violation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

Russian authorities are deploying security forces to Luhansk Oblast likely in response to waning support for the war and growing unwillingness to fight among Luhansk residents. This deployment diverts these forces from operations elsewhere in Ukraine, likely contributing to the broader Russian failure to translate limited tactical gains into operational successes.

Russian officials may have conducted a false flag event in Donetsk City to justify attacks against Ukrainian government buildings on Ukrainian Independence Day.

Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks northeast and south of Bakhmut, on the northwestern outskirts of Donetsk City, and southwest of Donetsk City.

Russian forces made limited gains east of Mykolaiv City and in northwestern Kherson Oblast.

Ukrainian forces continued to strike Russian military assets and ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in Kherson Oblast.

Russian federal subjects (regions) are continuing to increase one-time enlistment bonuses for recruits, and are likely recruiting personnel with no prior military experience for specialist positions.

Ukrainian partisan activity continues to disrupt Russian occupation activities.
Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Quote:
Ukrainian partisan activity continues to disrupt Russian occupation activities. Ukrainian partisans attempted to assassinate the Russian-appointed Kherson Oblast Deputy Head of the Internal Policy Department Igor Telegin with an improvised explosive device (IED) on August 23.[60] Telegin reportedly survived the attack with minor injuries.[61] Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) published a document reportedly giving guidance to Russian occupation forces to not accept food or medication from local Ukrainians due to fear of poisoning.[62] The Russian Defense Ministry claimed on August 20 that Ukrainians poisoned Russian forces and occupation official Volodymyr Saldo, though these reports remain unconfirmed.[63]

Russian officials continue importing Russians into occupied territories to serve in occupation administrations likely due to a lack of trust in local Ukrainian collaborators. Ukraine’s Resistance Center reported that former officials in the Russian government now serve as occupation officials.[64] The Resistance Center reported that two new former Russian officials now serve in the Zaporizhia Oblast occupation government and that Russians now hold almost all positions in the Russian occupation governments.[65] The Resistance Center also reported that occupation authorities continue to import skilled workers, such as doctors, teachers, and utility workers, into occupied territories and that the Kremlin aims to import more Russians into occupied territories as a policy.[66] ISW previously reported that occupation administrations face a widespread shortage of willing Ukrainian collaborators and issues trusting established Ukrainian collaborators.[67]

Russian occupation officials continue preparations to hold annexation referenda in occupied Ukraine. A Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) official indicated on August 23 that Luhansk residents now residing in Russia will still be eligible to vote in the annexation referendum, supporting ISW’s prior assessments that occupation authorities seek to accelerate preparations for annexation referenda.[68] LNR Deputy Internal Minister Vitaly Kiselev announced that Luhansk Oblast residents who left Luhansk Oblast for Russia will be able to vote on the LNR referendum for Russian annexation.[69] Kiselev claimed that voter turnout will be 100% and that 70% of voters will vote in favor of annexation.[70] Kiselev claimed that the number of people in occupied territories who applied for Russian passports indicates a widespread desire to join Russia.[71]

Russian occupation officials are continuing efforts to establish Russian schools in occupied Ukraine. The GUR reported that Russian authorities attempted to reopen 43 educational facilities with Russian teachers and collaborators in occupied Ukraine.[72] The GUR also reiterated prior reporting that occupation officials are threatening to fine Ukrainian parents who do not send Ukrainian children to the occupation-established schools.[73] Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin announced that DNR and Russia will cooperate to ensure children in occupied Donetsk Oblast have access to education and educational supplies.
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
908 posts, read 441,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
No!

Why do you think the US is united in support of Ukraine....there is No ambiguity! The majority of Russians support this invasion/war and Putin.

By the US is united in support of Ukraine , are you referring to the US establishment or the American people as a whole ?

Because it is quite likely that ( if you're referring to the latter ) said support will fizzle out to mere affirmative answers to pollsters , if it is indeed solidly pro Ukraine to begin with , since the possibility of a Congress being elected that will at the very least decrease the level of support Ukraine is receiving looms rather large if alleged public sentiment towards government spending can be believed .

Maybe they do , though I'm not sure how one can determine that especially if one is starting out from the premise of Russia being a dictatorship where anything regarding public approval is doctored , yet does that in and of itself prove that Russian troops are waging a literal campaign of genocide ?
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,728,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Blakeley View Post
By the US is united in support of Ukraine , are you referring to the US establishment or the American people as a whole ?

Because it is quite likely that ( if you're referring to the latter ) said support will fizzle out to mere affirmative answers to pollsters , if it is indeed solidly pro Ukraine to begin with , since the possibility of a Congress being elected that will at the very least decrease the level of support Ukraine is receiving looms rather large if alleged public sentiment towards government spending can be believed .

Maybe they do , though I'm not sure how one can determine that especially if one is starting out from the premise of Russia being a dictatorship where anything regarding public approval is doctored , yet does that in and of itself prove that Russian troops are waging a literal campaign of genocide ?
It is the American people. This is the latest....if Ukraine shows the will to fight...and they are making the best use of the weapons we are providing...the US will continue to support them. There may be some erosion in support...but as pointed out earlier...there is an Evil in this war that has struck a cord with the American people. Ukraine has free agency...it is their call on how to meet their objectives.

https://twitter.com/ckafura/status/1560639055913951233

Quote:
New from the 2022
@ChicagoCouncil

Survey: 58% of Americans say the US should back #Ukraine for as long as it takes, even if it means paying higher prices at home.
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:17 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,573 posts, read 17,286,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Blakeley View Post
Can we be sure that Russia is committing an unprecedented amount of war crimes though ?


Does it make sense to pass such judgement before any sort of ICC like proceedings occur ?


Isn't casting Russians as barbarian orcs the flip side of casting Ukrainians as evil Nazis ?
No.
No one with a lick of sense has joined into the "Nazi" nonsense. That's just something promoted by the Ruskateers.
Russia has been creating problems all over the world for as long as most of us have been alive. Buzzing warships, bombing civilians in Syria, sending bombers over to test US defense, poisoning those who speak out. They are going to be destroyed by this war and that is a very good thing.
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:22 PM
 
19,029 posts, read 27,599,679 times
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Nebenzya: The UN Security Council circulated photographic

Alexander Samozhnev
Russia distributed in the UN Security Council and the General Assembly photographic evidence of the shelling of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant by the Ukrainian military. This was announced by the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the UN Vasily Nebenzya.
The Russian diplomat stressed that the situation with nuclear safety at the nuclear power plant had degraded over the past two weeks. The Ukrainian military, according to him, continues to shell the territory of the nuclear power plant and the city of Energodar almost daily, thereby creating a real risk of a radiation accident with catastrophic consequences for the entire European continent.
Nebenzya called Kyiv's continued shelling of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant a consequence of the criminal connivance of the West. The permanent representative pointed out that at the last meeting of the UN Security Council, none of the Western delegations "had the determination to call on the Kyiv regime to stop shelling the ZNPP."
At the end of his speech, Nebenzia emphasized that Moscow is ready to provide maximum assistance for the visit of the Zaporozhye delegation of the IAEA.
Formerly the Russian Embassy in Washingtondeclared that the irresponsible rhetoric of the United States is pushing Ukrainian troops to implement criminal plans that are fraught with a man-made disaster, the consequences of which Europe will have to cope with for many decades. The diplomats stressed that Washington’s silence on all the facts of shelling of the Zaporizhzhya NPP by the Armed Forces of Ukraine is unacceptable and only encourages the impunity of the Kyiv regime, which continues to systematically strike at the Zaporozhye NPP.
The military of the Armed Forces of Ukraine spoke about the mass flight of Ukrainian soldiers from the front

line A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine spoke about this, noting that the massive and prolonged artillery strikes of the RF Armed Forces are demoralizing.
After the shelling, some fighters who arrived in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as volunteers seek to get to the rear under any pretext, leadsRIA Novosti the words of the military, referring to the publication Strana.ua. According to him, sometimes there are real "panic epidemics" when entire units leave positions.
The interlocutor of the publication clarified that most often the militants of the territorial defense, who are considered the most unreliable in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, are fleeing, as they were not ready for serious battles. The Ukrainian command is aware of this problem and is trying to add soldiers with combat experience to the units to recruits. At the same time, the interlocutor of the publication did not specify whether such measures are effective.
Formerly in Ukrainerevealed a scheme of mass evasion of men of military age from service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They began to travel to Poland and the Baltic countries under the guise of university students. At the same time, both real students who actually study at foreign universities and those who choose the services of intermediaries use the loophole. Those who wish for an amount from 1.5 to 2.5 thousand dollars are guaranteed admission and education in educational institutions of "friendly countries".
In Ukraine, they called the purpose of the visit of the President of Poland to Kiev

Former deputy of Rada Kiva: Duda arrived in Kiev to control the transfer of Western Ukraine to Poland
Former deputyVerkhovna RadaIlya Kiva in hisTelegramchannel named the purpose of the visit of the President of PolandAndrzej Duda inKiev.
According to him, the politician arrived to control the transfer of Western Ukraine under the controlWarsaw. Kiva believes that the Polish authorities are striving to implement their plans for territorial expansion, despite the continuation of hostilities in the neighboring country.
"Preparations for the transition of the western territories of Ukraine under the control of Poland should proceed according to the schedule," he said.
Former press secretary of the President of RussiaDmitry Peskovdeclaredthat the territorial integrity of Ukraine could be threatened by Poland. He drew attention to the fact that the rhetoric of this country has not been friendly for a long time, but in the past few months it has become hostile.
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:25 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,573 posts, read 17,286,360 times
Reputation: 37320
Three myths are addressed by this Yale professor. 4:44

1) Russia will pivot to China and make up for what sales were lost in Europe.
2) Domestic consumption remains strong. Unemployment still low. All is normal in Russia
3) Putin is running a budget surplus because of oil sales.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IPzww2IHzM
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
908 posts, read 441,944 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
No.
No one with a lick of sense has joined into the "Nazi" nonsense. That's just something promoted by the Ruskateers.
Russia has been creating problems all over the world for as long as most of us have been alive. Buzzing warships, bombing civilians in Syria, sending bombers over to test US defense, poisoning those who speak out. They are going to be destroyed by this war and that is a very good thing.

My point was that how is referring to Russians as barbarian orcs ( or anything similar ) any different from how the Pro Russian side of this debate likes to refer to Ukrainians as evil Nazis ?

The same applies to the United States as well , in fact compared to the Russian Federation it has interfered in way more far flung places well outside of its sphere of influence/contributed to the deaths of far more innocents during the Iraqi no fly zone/sanctions era alone than the Russian Federation ever has , and yet it still strikes me that insisting that the USA be destroyed as such is both unreasonable/unacceptable .

But since we're on the subject do you think Russia should be destroyed in toto ?

Or are you merely of the opinion that regime change should take place in it ?

If it's the latter than would you support the emergence of a traditionalist non imperialist Tsardom , as I do , with the relations of Prince Karl Emrich of Leiningen ascending the throne ?
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Old 08-23-2022, 08:43 PM
 
8,146 posts, read 3,676,088 times
Reputation: 2718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
No.
No one with a lick of sense has joined into the "Nazi" nonsense. That's just something promoted by the Ruskateers.
Russia has been creating problems all over the world for as long as most of us have been alive. Buzzing warships, bombing civilians in Syria, sending bombers over to test US defense, poisoning those who speak out. They are going to be destroyed by this war and that is a very good thing.
Lol. Actually US is the undisputed world record holder in this discipline.
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