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Actually we all get it. It's been repeated ad nauseum that America is no saint and has been hypocritical in many foreign policy decisions. However, people like you never seem to get that whatever America has done, Russia is just way worse. Go ask the people in Eastern Europe what they think.
Go ask the people in the Middle-East, Africa, and Southeast Asia what they think. Who is the "Great Satan"?
Eastern Europe was under Bolshevik(not necessarily Russian) oppression for decades. They gained their independence but are still threatened by the Russian behemoth on their doorstop. They may see the West as the lesser threat, but America is not their friend.
Eastern Europe was under Russian domination for hundreds of years but they are still themselves. If Eastern Europe was under American domination for the same period, it would be completely Americanized. The only reason anyone pretends to like America is money. America treats the entire world like a brothel. They'll do anything for American money. Sell their women, their country, their souls.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 08-26-2022 at 12:24 PM..
The person I was responding to said, "WWI and WWII were triggered by disputes over land."...
And he was right.
Quote:
Serbia and Austria were not having a border dispute. As in, Serbia made no claims to Austrian land, and Austria made no claims to Serbian land. There was no land in dispute.
Now you're being silly. The very reason Franz-Ferdinand was in Sarajevo was to inspect the territories of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which Austria-Hungary had annexed a few years previously. Territories that the Serbs strongly felt should at least partly belong to Serbia. Dispute over the ownership of those territories were what caused the Serb nationalists to hate Austria-Hungary, it was the prime mover behind the assassination. "No land in dispute..."
It's ironic that while Russian terrorists want to resurrect the bane of history the Soviet Empire, their neighbors want nothing to do with it.
Weird how every single country that has felt the warm embrace of Mother Russia seems pretty determined to not repeat the experience.
Did I recount the old Polish joke?
We're in the opening days of World War II, and the Nazis are entering Poland from the West, while the Soviet Union (bosom buddies with the Nazis at that time, although they don't like being reminded about that fact) were rolling in from the East. Two Polish officers are having a conversation:
"The situation is terrible! We have Germans attacking from one side, Russians from the other - who do you shoot at first?"
"Easy. You shoot Germans first, then Russians. Business before pleasure."
"The situation is terrible! We have Germans attacking from one side, Russians from the other - who do you shoot at first?"
"Easy. You shoot Germans first, then Russians. Business before pleasure."
Couldn't rep you so I'll just repeat your post. Funny, truly funny.
Weird how every single country that has felt the warm embrace of Mother Russia seems pretty determined to not repeat the experience.
Did I recount the old Polish joke?
We're in the opening days of World War II, and the Nazis are entering Poland from the West, while the Soviet Union (bosom buddies with the Nazis at that time, although they don't like being reminded about that fact) were rolling in from the East. Two Polish officers are having a conversation:
"The situation is terrible! We have Germans attacking from one side, Russians from the other - who do you shoot at first?"
"Easy. You shoot Germans first, then Russians. Business before pleasure."
Similar story during the 80s out of Poland. (sorry if I've told it on this thread before)
Soldier goes in for 2 weeks of indoctrination training. At the end the trainer asks him, "You see two soldiers, an American and a Russian. Which one do you shoot?" Soldier replies, "The Russian!" Trainer sends him back for 2 more weeks of indoctrination. After the training he asks again, "Which one do you shoot?" Soldier again replies, "The Russian!" Two more weeks of training. After that, "Which one do you shoot?" Again the soldier replies, "The Russian!" Trainer is really frustrated, "No, no, no. Ask ME the question." Soldier asks him which one he would shoot. Trainer says, "The American!" Finally, the light comes on in the soldier's eyes. "Ah! You are saving the Russian for me!!!!"
Turkey has snubbed the US over the sanctions threat they face for continuing to deal with Russia. Since Turkey has dismissed US sanctions as meaningless, the ball is in the US court to either follow through or stand down. I'm curious to see what the US does, normally the threat alone makes other countries stand down, but not with Turkey.
Turkey Dismisses Concerns Over a U.S. Sanctions Warning
ISTANBUL (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury's warning to Turkey that its companies risked being sanctioned if they did business with sanctioned Russians was "meaningless," Finance Minister Nureddin Nebati said on Friday, assuring businesspeople there was no need for concern.
NATO-member Turkey has sought to strike a balance between Moscow and Kyiv by criticising Russia's invasion and sending arms to Ukraine, while opposing the Western sanctions and continuing trade, tourism and investment with Russia.
Now you're being silly. The very reason Franz-Ferdinand was in Sarajevo was to inspect the territories of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which Austria-Hungary had annexed a few years previously. Territories that the Serbs strongly felt should at least partly belong to Serbia. Dispute over the ownership of those territories were what caused the Serb nationalists to hate Austria-Hungary, it was the prime mover behind the assassination. "No land in dispute..."
In WWII there was a very clear border dispute in regards to the Sudetenland and Danzig. The Polish corridor was also a border dispute because it had been part of Germany for hundreds of years prior to WWI. Even the Anschluss with Austria was a pseudo border dispute resulting from the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain. The beginning of WWII was all about retaking lost German territories.
In WWI, Austria had no territorial claims it was fighting for. It was fighting to defend the lands it had. Serbia did have territorial ambitions and was agitating Serbians living in Bosnia in the same way Mexico might agitate Mexicans living in New Mexico, Texas, California, etc. The goal of Serbia(Mexico) was to convince the Bosnian Serbs(Mexican-Americans) to assassinate Austrian(American) officials, to undermine the governing authorities, and demand separation.
The cause of WWI was Serbia's support for terrorist activities in the Austrian Empire, which forced the Austrians to respond harshly to put an end to such hostilities. Russia was the first country to mobilize their military.
Which begs the question, who was to blame for WWI? And more importantly, were they in the wrong? Does anyone here actually believe Serbia should have respected Austria's territorial integrity? Why?
"Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights." - Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
EDIT: Keep in mind "Territorial integrity" isn't necessarily the same as a "Border Dispute". Which isn't necessarily the same as "Sovereignty". A border dispute is a disputed border with another country. Sovereignty is about keeping out foreign influence. Territorial integrity can be both external or internal. For instance in the Russo-Georgian War, Georgia was fighting for "territorial integrity" after Russia supported Ossetian and Abkhazian separatists. In the American revolution, Britain was fighting for its territorial integrity from the American colonists who were supported by France and Spain. France was interfering with Britain's territorial integrity but there was no border dispute(except in the most vague and presumptive manner).
In WWI, Austria had no territorial claims it was fighting for. It was fighting to defend the lands it had.
Defend the lands it had seized a few years earlier. And that's ignoring that Austria-Hungary flat-out occupied Serbia in 1915. I'm not out to put some sort of moral filter over the debate - grabbing a bit of territory if you could was SOP around 1900.
But there are facts.
Austria-Hungary had annexed Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1908, over their neighbors' protests. That was part of "the lands it had".
Austria-Hungary seized the assassination as an opportunity to declare war. We know this, because they told their nearest ally (Germany) of their plan to do so.
Austria-Hungary immediately attempted an invasion, once war began.
Austria-Hungary - with Germany's support - did in fact invade Serbia in 1915 and split the territory with Bulgaria.
All of the above are things that happened. So again, saying that "Serbia and Austria were not having a border dispute. As in, Serbia made no claims to Austrian land, and Austria made no claims to Serbian land. There was no land in dispute" is not supported by facts.
Similar story during the 80s out of Poland. (sorry if I've told it on this thread before)
Soldier goes in for 2 weeks of indoctrination training. At the end the trainer asks him, "You see two soldiers, an American and a Russian. Which one do you shoot?" Soldier replies, "The Russian!" Trainer sends him back for 2 more weeks of indoctrination. After the training he asks again, "Which one do you shoot?" Soldier again replies, "The Russian!" Two more weeks of training. After that, "Which one do you shoot?" Again the soldier replies, "The Russian!" Trainer is really frustrated, "No, no, no. Ask ME the question." Soldier asks him which one he would shoot. Trainer says, "The American!" Finally, the light comes on in the soldier's eyes. "Ah! You are saving the Russian for me!!!!"
I actually LOL'd.
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