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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 187 40.22%
No 234 50.32%
Unsure 44 9.46%
Voters: 465. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 06-03-2022, 12:11 PM
 
26,726 posts, read 22,380,813 times
Reputation: 10019

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I posted BBC articles saying something similar a week ago. They said, the Ukrainian soldiers were abandoning their positions in the east. Yet, the battle continues, so I didn't know what to make of those reports. I mean, it was the BBC, not Radio Free Putin. So I take the overly-optimistic pro-Ukraine reports with a grain of salt, to some extent. I haven't checked today, but as of yesterday, there were reports, that Ukraine has shifted its attention to the coastal region, regaining some lost territory.

edit: I just did a quick check for updates. There are conflicting reports about what's going on in Severodonetsk, but Ukraine hasn't abandoned it, they're still fighting. The contradictions are about how much they've achieved there. Some say, they're only holding on long enough, to allow residents to escape.

Reluctantly so - even the reporters here acknowledge that.

The toughest ones decide to sit it out and to wait for the arrival of the Russian troops.

Some even beat up one of the residents, that brought the foreign correspondents to their hideout.

It says there "because they think that we (they imply themselves, the Western reporters apparently,) are responsible for these bombings."
The truth however is - these residents hold Westerners in general responsible for this war, this whole disaster.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUfSuAJkLgU

Last edited by erasure; 06-03-2022 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 06-03-2022, 12:27 PM
 
26,726 posts, read 22,380,813 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_N View Post
Everything old is new again

Population transfer in the Soviet Union

From 1930 to 1952, the government of the Soviet Union, ordered by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin and executed by the NKVD official Lavrentiy Beria, forcibly transferred populations of various groups. These actions may be classified into the following broad categories: deportations of "anti-Soviet" categories of population (often classified as "enemies of workers"), deportations of entire nationalities, labor force transfer, and organized migrations in opposite directions to fill ethnically cleansed territories. Dekulakization marked the first time that an entire class was deported, whereas the deportation of Soviet Koreans in 1937 marked the precedent of a specific ethnic deportation of an entire nationality.
[…]
The Soviet Union also practiced deportations in occupied territories, with over 50,000 perishing from the Baltic States and 300,000 to 360,000 perishing during the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe due to Soviet deportation, massacres, and internment and labour camps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

See, because you are so immersed in anti-Soviet propaganda ( anti-Stalin in particular,) you don't see the BIGGER picture.

If all these ethnic groups would have been destroyed and uprooted from their ancestral lands, as the propaganda would want you to believe, then there would be no "autonomous republics" left in Russia, no ethnic languages kept.

So every time you hear these kind of claims, you need to see who exactly from these ethnic groups was deported and for what reasons exactly.

And first of all you'd notice that it were ethnic groups siding with Germans in the WWII or being suspected in collaboration.

So very limited number of ethnic groups was targeted.

Another thing - of course not ALL of them were deported - part of them always remained on their ancestral lands, which was enough to keep the future generations going.

And of course Stalin was weary of the nationalist movements, so he had to walk the fine line ( which was particularly dangerous in war/post war times.)
But it was the same task for every Russian ( and later Soviet) leader - to keep the ethnic enclaves intact, yet at the same time to prevent the separatist/nationalist movement.

In fact even back in Imperial times, the most progressive part of the Russian nobility, the Decembrists, had the same idea when it came specifically to Caucasus.

Leave the "peaceful peoples" there alone, just send them Russian superiors to run things, but DISPERSE the violent ethnic groups throughout Russia, so that they wouldn't represent the danger to the Russian state.
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Old 06-03-2022, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,757 posts, read 8,168,982 times
Reputation: 8532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_N View Post
Everything old is new again

Population transfer in the Soviet Union

From 1930 to 1952, the government of the Soviet Union, ordered by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin and executed by the NKVD official Lavrentiy Beria, forcibly transferred populations of various groups. These actions may be classified into the following broad categories: deportations of "anti-Soviet" categories of population (often classified as "enemies of workers"), deportations of entire nationalities, labor force transfer, and organized migrations in opposite directions to fill ethnically cleansed territories. Dekulakization marked the first time that an entire class was deported, whereas the deportation of Soviet Koreans in 1937 marked the precedent of a specific ethnic deportation of an entire nationality.
[…]
The Soviet Union also practiced deportations in occupied territories, with over 50,000 perishing from the Baltic States and 300,000 to 360,000 perishing during the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe due to Soviet deportation, massacres, and internment and labour camps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union
Putin thinks he is Stalin.
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Old 06-03-2022, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,865,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
Putin thinks he is Stalin.
Stalin was the best possible ruler for Russian Empire in the 20th century. Putin would be doing great if learns from the Leader.
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Old 06-03-2022, 01:25 PM
bu2
 
23,939 posts, read 14,747,037 times
Reputation: 12746
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/06...le-end-n573912

Author talks about status of war. He points out how Putin keeps changing his stated goals.

"...All things being equal, I think the advantage still lies with Ukraine. Outside of German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and French President Emmanuel Macron, the Western consensus is that Russia must be visibly defeated, and donations of money and equipment reflect that belief. But things aren’t always equal.

In my opinion, Russia is rapidly adjusting its war aims. In February, Putin vowed to liberate Ukraine from the rule of “nazis and drug addicts,” disband the Ukrainian armed forces, force the recognition of the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk and the annexation of Crimea by Kiev, and prevent Ukraine from joining a military alliance. In April, those goals were expanded to seizing Ukraine’s coastal areas and linking up with the Russian puppet state in Transnistria (Putin Decides to Widen the War With Ukraine to Achieve His Objectives). None of that is going to happen. What Putin might do, however, is seize the whole of Luhansk and Donetsk, conduct a fake referendum to annex occupied portions of Kherson Oblast and Zaporizhzhia Oblast (Russia Is Creating Facts on the Ground to Support Annexing Eastern Ukraine), declare “mission accomplished” and play the victim if Ukraine continues the war. At that time, Henry Kissinger’s desire to give away other people’s countries and freedom may have more clout."
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Old 06-03-2022, 01:32 PM
 
26,726 posts, read 22,380,813 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/06...le-end-n573912

Author talks about status of war. He points out how Putin keeps changing his stated goals.

"...All things being equal, I think the advantage still lies with Ukraine. Outside of German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and French President Emmanuel Macron, the Western consensus is that Russia must be visibly defeated, and donations of money and equipment reflect that belief. But things aren’t always equal.

In my opinion, Russia is rapidly adjusting its war aims. In February, Putin vowed to liberate Ukraine from the rule of “nazis and drug addicts,” disband the Ukrainian armed forces, force the recognition of the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk and the annexation of Crimea by Kiev, and prevent Ukraine from joining a military alliance. In April, those goals were expanded to seizing Ukraine’s coastal areas and linking up with the Russian puppet state in Transnistria (Putin Decides to Widen the War With Ukraine to Achieve His Objectives). None of that is going to happen. What Putin might do, however, is seize the whole of Luhansk and Donetsk, conduct a fake referendum to annex occupied portions of Kherson Oblast and Zaporizhzhia Oblast (Russia Is Creating Facts on the Ground to Support Annexing Eastern Ukraine), declare “mission accomplished” and play the victim if Ukraine continues the war. At that time, Henry Kissinger’s desire to give away other people’s countries and freedom may have more clout."

Because France and Germany ( overall the "Old Europe" I think) are the biggest losers in this situation, with China being the biggest beneficiary so far.

And of course the Russians understand what this war is all about - not about Ukraine per se, but the war of the West against Russia.

Yet another crusade attempt.

And that's why as much as Putin ( or rather the "liberal wing" of his government) might start *adjusting* their goals, the Russian military and those that support it, might look at situation differently.
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Old 06-03-2022, 01:42 PM
 
26,726 posts, read 22,380,813 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
Stalin was the best possible ruler for Russian Empire in the 20th century. Putin would be doing great if learns from the Leader.

See, Stalin owned his old Russian-made trenchcoat, his Georgian-made pipe and some "Raketa" wrist watch.

Look at Putin's wrist watch and the rest.

Herein lies the difference.

Big difference at that.
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Old 06-03-2022, 02:05 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,424 posts, read 17,109,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
..............But I believe all wars are continuing only as long as they are economically profitable. And we will have peace sooner or later......
Kinda obvious, that.
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Old 06-03-2022, 03:07 PM
 
26,726 posts, read 22,380,813 times
Reputation: 10019
Right here, around 13:01.
That's why I couldn't quite understand what's the situation with "ships being blockaded" in Odessa port - what this was all about exactly.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVSCUBrFTk
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Old 06-03-2022, 03:47 PM
 
8,934 posts, read 11,722,206 times
Reputation: 10859
Ukrainian defenders fight back.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7FiBlbw8E
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