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Take your inane legal argument to court. If I hand someone a gun, and he shoots you, I would be directly involved, without having pulled the trigger myself.
NATO and US advanced weapon systems are being delivered to Ukraine. You can bet they come with training specialists. That’s direct involvement, by any rational definition. It isn’t necessary for US troops to be shooting Russians in order to be directly involved.
This doesn't hold up at all. By that definition, the Soviet Union was directly involved in the Vietnam War. Every piece of North Vietnamese hardware was Soviet and their army was trained exclusively by Soviets, both in the USSR and on Vietnamese soil. But the U.S. never considered the Soviet Union a combatant in Vietnam and the USSR did not consider the USA a combatant in Afghanistan even though we completely funded the mujahideen.
He is an idiot. “There is a bit of Hitler in all of us.” That is a ridiculous over statement. There are certainly a lot of Hitlers in the world, but there are also a lot of anti-Hitlers. That one statement discredits everything he says, IMHO. He is not worth listening to. He is just a troll.
I have followed Peterson for a while.
He's a bit of a psychological shock Jock. He loves to shock people with outrageous statements. Very qualified to speak of human behavior and human nature, but he's not qualified to speak of an outcome of a war of any sort.
"Win?!", he says, "What would we ever win?!" Then he goes on and makes no sense.
So you claim without proof that US specialists are there with each M777 battery? Your argument is that it's impossible that experienced Ukrainian artillerymen could be cross-trained in Europe and sent back to Ukraine with adequate knowledge of the weapons?
And two sentences later you've changed your definition of direct involvement to mean sending them weapons.
You are oddly emotional about insisting we walk a mile in poor Putin's shoes and feel his pain. We are the U.S.A. For 245 years we've made it a point to not care about injuring the psyches or physical selves of dictators.
I couldn’t care less about Putin. So, don’t confuse me with you cult of personality junkies. My concern involves avoiding WW III over a country you couldn’t pinpoint on a map if your lives depended on it. Y’all sit here blathering on like this is a god damned college football game, and frankly, I find it disgusting, if you want to know the truth.
Aside from the massive amounts of OUR money being pumped into a foreign conflict that we have no business being involved in, our assistance has only prolonged the conflict, along with the horror inflicted on all of the civilians, and much of the military on both sides who would probably prefer not to be dying either. But the fact is, it has been NATO-US actions over the past 7 years that is primarily responsible for creating this war in the first place, but you wouldn’t know anything about that, because you don’t seem to know much about anything at all.
But just to recap for you the bullet points, in 2014-15, we (US intelligence, and proxies) created a color revolution, and overthrew the Ukrainian government, installing a new western controlled puppet government, more hostile to Russia. In 2019, Zelensky, a cross dressing freak was made president, which certainly thrills the left no doubt, as any man wearing dresses and high heels surely would. Between 2015-2020 the Ukrainian government was slowly attempting to rid ( ethnically cleanse) the country of ethnic Russians in the Donbas region, while the controlled western media propaganda insists these regions were being infiltrated by Putin, and puppet regimes being established. Meanwhile, agreements were made, which were kept in good faith by Russia, and broken by Ukraine (Minsk accords), and the Russians did nothing. All the while, what’s the current number? 58? Bioweapons laboratories were made operational all across Ukraine, which Russia found alarming, as the push toward NATO membership expansion in that region continued. Now, NATO was created for one purpose … to fight a war with the USSR. Now that the USSR no longer exists, NATO’s very existence, never mind it’s expansion, is questionable. So, it’s not hard to understand why Russia might consider a military alliance created for the purpose of fighting a war against them, a security issue, especially as it applies to countries situated on Russia’s border joining the alliance. And it’s important to note that Russia made an offer to Ukraine that it would not engage in military action against Ukraine, and respect Ukraine’s boarder integrity if Ukraine would simply agree to ending it’s pursuit of NATO membership. Ukraine rejected the proposal, probably because Ukraine’s government is a western controlled puppet government. Matters get even more complicated when you take into consideration the fact that to Russia, World War II was not that long ago, that they might forget about the 27,000,000 million Russians who died as a result of Hitler’s Nazi Germany invasion, and that remnants of those NAZIS comprise Ukraine’s Azov Battalion, swastikas an all. Then there is the agreement Russia made with Finland, who allied with Hitler and participated in the invasion, but were defeated. Instead of annexing Finland, the former Soviet Union made a deal with them … the Soviets would leave, in return for Finland’s assurance to remain forever a neutral country, and never again ally itself with forces hostile to Russia. That agreement seems to be in jeopardy with regard to Finland’s desire to join NATO.
Maybe all of this is a bit much for some of you to process … and while I am no Russia apologist, as has been suggested, the meme that this is nothing other than unprovoked Russian aggression against an innocent country is pure bs in the extreme. The fact is, there exists such a degree of provocation on the side of NATO-US-UKRAINE, it’s hard to dismiss the deliberate appearances. Couple that with the fact that the entire war could have been avoided with only the agreement by Ukraine to end its quest for NATO membership, and this crap about unprovoked Russian aggression is completely without merit. If anything, it appears that the war was actually instigated deliberately by the west.
So, the propaganda being fed you armchair internet combat is absolute nonsense having no relationship with reality. But the larger point of it all is, the risk of this conflict escalating into a nuclear confrontation between the U.S. and Russia continues to move closer, and is no matter to take lightly. The dire consequences of a nuclear exchange is certainly too extreme to gamble on Putin’s threat to use nuclear weapons as being just a bluff.
Last edited by CaseyB; 09-23-2022 at 04:43 AM..
Reason: name calling, language
I couldn’t care less about Putin. So, don’t confuse me with you cult of personality junkies. My concern involves avoiding WW III over a country you knuckleheads couldn’t pinpoint on a map if your lives depended on it. Y’all sit here blathering on like this is a god damned college football game, and frankly, I find it disgusting, if you want to know the truth.
Aside from the massive amounts of OUR money being pumped into a foreign conflict that we have no business being involved in, our assistance has only prolonged the conflict, along with the horror inflicted on all of the civilians, and much of the military on both sides who would probably prefer not to be dying either. But the fact is, it has been NATO-US actions over the past 7 years that is primarily responsible for creating this war in the first place, but you wouldn’t know anything about that, because you don’t seem to know much about anything at all.
But just to recap for you the f’ing bullet points, in 2014-15, we (US intelligence, and proxies) created a color revolution, and overthrew the Ukrainian government, installing a new western controlled puppet government, more hostile to Russia. In 2019, Zelensky, a cross dressing freak was made president, which certainly thrills the left no doubt, as any man wearing dresses and high heels surely would. Between 2015-2020 the Ukrainian government was slowly attempting to rid ( ethnically cleanse) the country of ethnic Russians in the Donbas region, while the controlled western media propaganda insists these regions were being infiltrated by Putin, and puppet regimes being established. Meanwhile, agreements were made, which were kept in good faith by Russia, and broken by Ukraine (Minsk accords), and the Russians did nothing. All the while, what’s the current number? 58? Bioweapons laboratories were made operational all across Ukraine, which Russia found alarming, as the push toward NATO membership expansion in that region continued. Now, NATO was created for one purpose … to fight a war with the USSR. Now that the USSR no longer exists, NATO’s very existence, never mind it’s expansion, is questionable. So, it’s not hard to understand why Russia might consider a military alliance created for the purpose of fighting a war against them, a security issue, especially as it applies to countries situated on Russia’s border joining the alliance. And it’s important to note that Russia made an offer to Ukraine that it would not engage in military action against Ukraine, and respect Ukraine’s boarder integrity if Ukraine would simply agree to ending it’s pursuit of NATO membership. Ukraine rejected the proposal, probably because Ukraine’s government is a western controlled puppet government. Matters get even more complicated when you take into consideration the fact that to Russia, World War II was not that long ago, that they might forget about the 27,000,000 million Russians who died as a result of Hitler’s Nazi Germany invasion, and that remnants of those NAZIS comprise Ukraine’s Azov Battalion, swastikas an all. Then there is the agreement Russia made with Finland, who allied with Hitler and participated in the invasion, but were defeated. Instead of annexing Finland, the former Soviet Union made a deal with them … the Soviets would leave, in return for Finland’s assurance to remain forever a neutral country, and never again ally itself with forces hostile to Russia. That agreement seems to be in jeopardy with regard to Finland’s desire to join NATO.
Maybe all of this is a bit much for some of you to process … and while I am no Russia apologist, as has been suggested, the meme that this is nothing other than unprovoked Russian aggression against an innocent country is pure bs in the extreme. The fact is, there exists such a degree of provocation on the side of NATO-US-UKRAINE, it’s hard to dismiss the deliberate appearances. Couple that with the fact that the entire war could have been avoided with only the agreement by Ukraine to end its quest for NATO membership, and this crap about unprovoked Russian aggression is completely without merit. If anything, it appears that the war was actually instigated deliberately by the west.
So, the propaganda being fed you armchair internet combat clowns is absolute nonsense having no relationship with reality. But the larger point of it all is, the risk of this conflict escalating into a nuclear confrontation between the U.S. and Russia continues to move closer, and is no matter to take lightly. The dire consequences of a nuclear exchange is certainly too extreme to gamble on Putin’s threat to use nuclear weapons as being just a bluff.
Nukes are gonna get thrown duke so just as well face it. I can pin point any place on the planet janet. We got Kim nipping at our heels as well as Iran fran. Won't be long for the end to come.
Getting more concerned by the day that Putin will resort to using a nuclear weapon. He’s losing this war and losing support in Russia. He has about a quarter million active troops, 70k are injured. He just called up his reserves and pissed a lot of people off. Next is a draft, his supporter’s children will be dragged into the war. I don’t believe losing is an option for him, he’ll use nukes before he loses. The best and most likely outcome is some kind of negotiated agreement where Russia gets to keep the heavily pro Russian areas of eastern Ukraine. I hope Zelenskyy is level headed and not willing to fight for every inch. Again, no real winners here 2 very corrupt countries fighting over land that no one outside of Russia and Ukraine really cares about.
Nukes are gonna get thrown duke so just as well face it. I can pin point any place on the planet janet. We got Kim nipping at our heels as well as Iran fran. Won't be long for the end to come.
He is an idiot. “There is a bit of Hitler in all of us.” That is a ridiculous over statement. There are certainly a lot of Hitlers in the world, but there are also a lot of anti-Hitlers. That one statement discredits everything he says, IMHO. He is not worth listening to. He is just a troll.
Whether you agree with his positions or disagree, nobody with an ounce of intelligence would call the man an idiot. The fact is, he is one of the more brilliant intellectuals in the public arena today, even if I don’t prescribe to every one of his opinions. And no single statement can possibly discredit everything someone says. That’s just ridiculous.
The statement you so strongly reject about there being a bit of Hitler in all of us, is actually quite true, albeit with the requisite exception here and there. In fact, the entirety of the progressive left, I would contend, possesses more than just a “bit”, and routinely expresses a lot. Authoritarianism, collectivism, cancel culture, the obsession with pronouns, and the list goes on, are all elements of the type of mindset that could be or follow a Hitler type. And the only ones who don’t see it, probably are more like it.
Peterson is a psychologist, as well as a philosopher, so his views dive more deeply into the human psyche than the average person is capable of understanding. And when I say average person, I mean the average person, intellectually speaking. And let’s be honest here, an IQ of 107 is considered the human average, though the average IQ in the United States is shockingly, 98. So we have a lot of dumb ass people in this country, because if 98 is the average, that means there is a large number below 98. Now, to put that into perspective, an IQ between 51-70 is the range considered to be that of a MORON. Yes, the term moron isn’t just a pejorative, it has real meaning from an intellectual capacity standpoint.
Getting more concerned by the day that Putin will resort to using a nuclear weapon. He’s losing this war and losing support in Russia. He has about a quarter million active troops, 70k are injured. He just called up his reserves and pissed a lot of people off. Next is a draft, his supporter’s children will be dragged into the war. I don’t believe losing is an option for him, he’ll use nukes before he loses. The best and most likely outcome is some kind of negotiated agreement where Russia gets to keep the heavily pro Russian areas of eastern Ukraine. I hope Zelenskyy is level headed and not willing to fight for every inch. Again, no real winners here 2 very corrupt countries fighting over land that no one outside of Russia and Ukraine really cares about.
Even if Putin is insane, which I don't believe he is, the people around him are not insane.
They will not use nukes.
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