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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.58%
No 244 50.83%
Unsure 46 9.58%
Voters: 480. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-06-2022, 02:27 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
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Insiders are saying that the reason why Germany talks a lot, but in reality all but blocks weapons exports to Ukraine is that Germans no longer trust Zelensky.
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:31 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB365 View Post
Ukraine doesn't have the money you say....

But guess who does....(and it ain't Russia)....

The West has that kind of money...peanuts for the West...

Sure...Putin wants to speeduo the "war"....because he is running out of
equipment...ammo....missiles....he doesn't have a bottomless supply...
a few more months and he is toast

That's wrong. Russia is prepared for a world war basically, much bigger than the current Ukraine war. They have ammo for years, according to a military guy on another message board. They haven't even switched to a war economy, yet.

I think Putin wants to speed things up because of the daily pus*y attacks on residential areas of Donetsk.
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:32 PM
 
2,396 posts, read 1,067,965 times
Reputation: 3455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Insiders are saying that the reason why Germany talks a lot, but in reality all but blocks weapons exports to Ukraine is that Germans no longer trust Zelensky.
That's funny....Germany just gave some sophisticated missile systems to Ukraine...
it was all over the news last week...not sure how you missed it Neuling.
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:33 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB365 View Post
That's funny....Germany just gave some sophisticated missile systems to Ukraine...
it was all over the news last week...not sure how you missed it Neuling.
They announced it, they didn't give it to them.

They even announced stuff they don't even have themselves.
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,891,624 times
Reputation: 2972
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Show your sources...mixed reports coming in from Severodonetsk. It sounds like the Russians got caught in a trap.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...ting-continues
This is pro-Ukrainian channel from Ukraine... https://t.me/rezident_ua/12668 I'd like to translate it for you, but got already 3 bans for doing so. Therefore, Google is your friend. [ok, the channel said, the Ukrainian counter offense was put down with heavy losses in the first day, but Zelensky continues to demand to attack at all costs against his generals best advice].

Chechens driving through the Severodonetsk looking for Ukrainian army (that controls 50% of the city), they drive a car clearly marked with Akhmat - any one can see them, talk to local residents, showing government buildings, notice peacefullness and lack of any bombarding or shooting sounds... https://vk.com/video224979381_456239152

Here's a statement from Butusov in Ukrainian - https://t.me/severodonetsk/10384 (he says essentially, in war one needs to fool opponent, but not the citizens). And he says Ukrainian army was able to get to the suburbs but could not reach the city proper.

Oleg Tsarev notices that because Ukraine sent troops to Severodonets from other locations, Russia was able to gain more ground in Svyatogorsk and is getting closer to Slavyansk.

So, all in all, Ukrainian army is in the local "industrial area", that is outside the city proper. There is some fighting there, and the result will be equal to Azovsteel.

Last edited by brrabbit; 06-06-2022 at 02:53 PM..
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:45 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 929,413 times
Reputation: 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't believe that at all, Russia is the opposite of an aggressor. The thing is, the war started on February 16, not 24, and it was started by Ukraine dramatically increasing its attacks on the Donbass from just a few dozens to 1500 per day, confirmed by the OSCE. That is ultimately what made Russia decide to invade, preventing a full attack on the Donbass and later on Crimea, some say a genocide.

Of course there were other, minor reasons that played a role, but they alone would not have made Russia invade. Russia could have coped with Nato in Ukraine, for instance. That alone was not enough of a reason in my view. After all, Nato can't attack Russia, so all they can do is sit there, like they have been doing in Poland for years.
As far as I know, Donbas is a part of Ukraine and Russia doesnt get to innocently invade countries whose domestic actions they dont like.

But that matters little in this world as we have seen the US annhilate country after country while still pretending to play the good guy role. Ultimately what matters is what action leads to the better outcome and letting Russia take Ukraine would have been the better outcome for America and probably the rest of the world (maybe even Ukraine if they just surrendered).
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,891,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Show your sources...mixed reports coming in from Severodonetsk. It sounds like the Russians got caught in a trap.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...ting-continues
As far as Dailykos... or any american sources of information... If they have no boots on the ground, they only can translate Ukrainian official propaganda, which has been called not reliable even by the Ukrainian officials. One needs to be very careful when believing anything that comes from Ukraine.
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Old 06-06-2022, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,891,624 times
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Here's a quick guide which information one can trust.

1) Russian sources do not lie. However, they might be misguided, in which case there will be a correction pretty soon. Or they might keep it silent if things aren't going their way.


a) Guys with recognizable names do not lie. They might not have all information, could be misguided, misinterpreting events, etc.

b) Kadyrov does not lie, but he's way over-bragging about his guys, overestimates goals, etc. It's like "macho" thing very common in Chechnya. He is not reliable source though, unless confirmed by others.
c) Strelkov AKA Girkin (if one says Strelkov - he's pro-Russian, if one says Girkin - he's pro-Ukraininan..., although his official name "at the moment" is Girkin) posts lots of negative information about Russian heavy losses and mistakes. I don't think he's lying, but he sits in Moscow, is very upset with Putin and he seems to be overly pessimistic (or he gives "the most pessimistic" scenario). I think he just not getting all the picture from multiple places, even if his information from where he gets it might be "spot on".

2) Ukrainian sources do not tell truth. Unless they are speaking about their own losses. In which case, they might be trying to do damage control and underestimate their losses.
a) my friend told me, Sharij is more or less reliable guy though. But he's not in Ukraine, so it's questionable how much true info is reported to him from his followers
b) TG-channel "Resident" seems to be reliable. But they aren't claiming "this is how it is". They are leaking what Ukraininan top officials thinking about. Whether to believe them or not, IDK. But they seem to be reliable and pro-Ukrainian (anti-Russian) at the same time.
c) TG-channel "Iний" seems reliable. it comes from several guys fighting in the Ukrainian Army. As such, it cannot and does not pretend to be really covering everything in different places.
d) Arestovich when talking about Ukrainian wins lies so much, he's amazing. But when talking about loses, he speaks truth without any restraint before anyone else... So, he's 50-50, and usually one can tell if he lies or speaks truth.

3) American sources translate Ukrainian version. They lack people on the ground, and even if they do, those reporters are easily controllable.


4) No video means no proof. If there is a video, it does not make a reliable proof either. But if there are many videos taken by different sources on same or subsequent days, preferably including talking with the locals, and especially children, then it must be true.

Last edited by brrabbit; 06-06-2022 at 04:07 PM..
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Old 06-06-2022, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,728,246 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
As far as Dailykos... or any american sources of information... If they have no boots on the ground, they only can translate Ukrainian official propaganda, which has been called not reliable even by the Ukrainian officials. One needs to be very careful when believing anything that comes from Ukraine.
KO's and especially ISW factor these things in

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...ting-continues

Quote:
At some points in the war, it’s been not only possible, but sensible, to doubt reports from either side, especially when they have sounded too rosy. Russia has repeatedly made claims or even shown videos that were absolutely at odds with the reports of those on the ground—that includes happy-happy-joy-joy videos showing smiling people in the areas occupied by Russia going about their day in cities unscarred by weeks of pounding artillery. There’s absolutely no doubt that Ukraine has also applied spin to the public information it releases, in part to protect troops in the field, and in part to move the news needle in ways that make it more likely to receive the support required to survive the invasion.

But when it comes to what’s happening in Severodonetsk, there’s not much doubt about what’s happening. As kos has pointed out, that’s because from the town of Lysychansk, just across the river, it’s possible to look down into the streets of Severeodonetsk. That means not just that Ukrainian soldiers in those streets are able to guide artillery to very precise locations, it also means that observers have a ringside view to what — according to some of those gathered — has been Russia’s worst loss since the war began.
There are conflicting reports coming out of Severodonetsk. The town is being reduced to rubble and there is heavy fighting. Ukrainians do control Lysychansk which is on high ground which allows them pick off Russian armament in Severodonetsk. Fog of War...we will have a better idea in a couple of days.
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Old 06-06-2022, 04:03 PM
 
2,326 posts, read 960,613 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Man no one really believes your propaganda nonsense. You know that right?

It just reminds me to harass my politicians into giving more equipment to Ukraine.

Speak for yourself.
It's his propaganda sources vs yours and I'm aligning myself with his.
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