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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.75%
No 242 50.63%
Unsure 46 9.62%
Voters: 478. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2022, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,885,691 times
Reputation: 2967

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
And yes, I think the Baltic republics would be next, to create a land corridor to Russian Kaliningrad and more. Biden has his hands full with this calamity and it doesn't help that he is senile and weak. Perhaps he can have a bowl of ice cream and mull over this situation and then get back to us.

I don't think Baltic republics would be next in the next 10-20 years. Or any country would be "next". Russia will have enough on its plate to rebuild itself and Ukraine economically to risk jumping into a big war.


Having said that, Baltic republics would suffer huge economic losses due to being cut from Russian transit and resources. And Europe won't have neither money, nor desire to bail them out. So chances are all Baltic republics might become staunchly pro-Russian in a few years.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:26 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,552 posts, read 17,251,719 times
Reputation: 37264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
OK, it's time for Ukraine to throw in the towel, give up the now bombed out and worthless Donbas, secure a new eastern border and make life miserable for the Russkies with partisan attacks in the lost areas. Vladimir the Great has too many young Russians to send to their deaths and Ukraine should stop playing his game.

Zelensky managed to save the bulk of his country from the Russian imperialists. Ukraine can flourish as a member of the EU and a western looking nation while Russia is doomed to isolation and second world status.
The problem is;
#1 Donbas contains natural gas reserves. Lots of it. So it's not worthless.
#2 Giving in, the way they did with Crimea, just postpones the inevitable, which means Putin/Russia will return some day.


The war should go on until someone says "Uncle". It's Ukraine's call, since they have the most to lose.
You're right about one thing; Russia will sit in the second class section from this day forward. They have lost and, due to sanctions, their losses will continue to pile up long after this war is over. In 15 - 20 years Russia will hardly function as a country - like Syria, Venezuela, North Korea, and Yemen. For those who are about to respond, "Yeah, but Russian oil...", just be aware Venezuela and Syria also have oil. And America has its own.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:33 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,552 posts, read 17,251,719 times
Reputation: 37264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
......... Or using nukes, tactical or conventional. But by using these options that would result in a nuclear war.............
General Ben Hodges has pointed out that the use of nuclear weapons of any sort by Russia does not mean the US will use them. The F-35 and other stealth weapons were created for such a scenario, he says, and with 5 days of the first nuclear blast the Russian army and navy would be obliterated. The use of nuclear weapons by NATO or America would not be necessary.
So there is always the danger that Russia may use nuclear weapons. But there is no danger of nuclear war.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,885,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
General Ben Hodges has pointed out that the use of nuclear weapons of any sort by Russia does not mean the US will use them. The F-35 and other stealth weapons were created for such a scenario, he says, and with 5 days of the first nuclear blast the Russian army and navy would be obliterated. The use of nuclear weapons by NATO or America would not be necessary.
So there is always the danger that Russia may use nuclear weapons. But there is no danger of nuclear war.
Do you understand that stealth planes are no stealth even for S-400s? Nothing can be stealth over the area of 1000 miles.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:53 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,447,916 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The problem is;
#1 Donbas contains natural gas reserves. Lots of it. So it's not worthless.
#2 Giving in, the way they did with Crimea, just postpones the inevitable, which means Putin/Russia will return some day.
...
Exactly.

If Ukraine makes territorial concessions today, Russia will be back tomorrow for a third bite.

And it is true that the entire region Russia is trying to occupy is energy rich and under-exploited. Controlling these resources would further consolidate Putin's leverage over Europe. He needs to be stopped now.
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Old 06-12-2022, 10:00 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,552 posts, read 17,251,719 times
Reputation: 37264
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
Do you understand that stealth planes are no stealth even for S-400s? Nothing can be stealth over the area of 1000 miles.
Tell it to Ben Hodges.
He probably needs to know that.
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Old 06-12-2022, 10:22 AM
 
8,116 posts, read 3,661,082 times
Reputation: 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
General Ben Hodges has pointed out that the use of nuclear weapons of any sort by Russia does not mean the US will use them. The F-35 and other stealth weapons were created for such a scenario, he says, and with 5 days of the first nuclear blast the Russian army and navy would be obliterated. The use of nuclear weapons by NATO or America would not be necessary.
So there is always the danger that Russia may use nuclear weapons. But there is no danger of nuclear war.
Lol, so if that's the case, why do we have nuclear weapons in the first place?
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Old 06-12-2022, 10:25 AM
 
Location: NYC
5,204 posts, read 4,665,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Agree that this is a rational approach, but in my opinion not enough time to implement due to severe Ukrainian losses in the last few weeks. Many of the heavily fortified areas defended by Ukraine have been breached and Russian advances are expected to move more quickly now despite their own losses. A point will be reached where the Donbas front will just collapse and the Russians will race west.

The only solution that will save the day is NATO boots on the ground, especially US forces. Or using nukes, tactical or conventional. But by using these options that would result in a nuclear war.

And yes, I think the Baltic republics would be next, to create a land corridor to Russian Kaliningrad and more. Biden has his hands full with this calamity and it doesn't help that he is senile and weak. Perhaps he can have a bowl of ice cream and mull over this situation and then get back to us.
The Ukrainians are definitely suffering setbacks these past weeks but let's not exaggerate Russia's military capabilities. Remember just a few months ago, the Russian military failed spectacularly because they were trying to advance on 4 axis of attack and their logistics could not keep up. Now they have concentrated all their forces in the Donbas. I think it's great to use the threat of Russian aggression as an emotional appeal to help Ukraine faster but realistically, Russia isn't going to invade the Baltics.
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Old 06-12-2022, 10:36 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,729,600 times
Reputation: 9728
A weird statement or threat from the main Zelensky adviser:


Arestovich explained why the West should supply Kiev with more weapons.

"Let's say if Putin wins. And another 500 thousand Ukrainian army will join the 1.5 million Russian army. Everyone has seen how we can fight. And all this will then go to Europe. And then where will the funny European troops be able to stop the union of Ukraine and Russia, if that happens, plus Belarus?", — says the adviser to the head of Zelensky's Office.

"Union of Ukraine and Russia"? From the mouth of the representative of Kiev, it sounds especially interesting.


https://t.me/sputnik/6209
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Old 06-12-2022, 11:40 AM
 
4,950 posts, read 2,705,499 times
Reputation: 6945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The problem is;
#1 Donbas contains natural gas reserves. Lots of it. So it's not worthless.
#2 Giving in, the way they did with Crimea, just postpones the inevitable, which means Putin/Russia will return some day.


The war should go on until someone says "Uncle". It's Ukraine's call, since they have the most to lose.
You're right about one thing; Russia will sit in the second class section from this day forward. They have lost and, due to sanctions, their losses will continue to pile up long after this war is over. In 15 - 20 years Russia will hardly function as a country - like Syria, Venezuela, North Korea, and Yemen. For those who are about to respond, "Yeah, but Russian oil...", just be aware Venezuela and Syria also have oil. And America has its own.
Disagree about the comparison of Russia with Syria, Venezuela, North Korea, and Yemen. Those countries are small and Russia is the largest country in the world with extensive resources including oil, minerals, and plenty of agricultural land across several climatic zones. Russia is better set to be self sufficient in just about everything. There was a joke during the Soviet era where a Soviet diplomat brags to the rest of the world - "Comrades, we have everything that you can imagine!" That, of course, is not true but it isn't too far off the mark. So not to say that they will be successful at going at it alone, but Russia has the best chance to succeed. And it can still trade with China, India, and other countries to get products that it doesn't have.
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